What if Ebay implemented a buyers fee?

BigD5 · January 17, 2006 9:20PM

Say, 2%?

But they also eliminated the listing fee for the seller.

Would that promote more listings?

Fewer buyers?

Armegeddon?

MORGANHUNTER2 · January 17, 2006 9:25PM

GOODBYE EBAY!

291fifth · January 17, 2006 9:38PM

It would be a huge mistake. Buyer's fees are a plague on the auction field.

Barndog · January 17, 2006 9:39PM

Buyers would reduce their bids commensurately...similar to what happens for common items auctioned via other venues.

Cameonut · January 17, 2006 9:42PM

I will simply reduce my bids by the buyers fees.

ms70 · January 17, 2006 9:49PM

I think eBay got the message the last time they messed with fees when their stock tanked.

tsacch · January 17, 2006 9:53PM

ciao, arrivaderci, bye bye ebay.... I rarely get deals anymore, so adding more fees would just make it worse for all. what kind of profit do they make already, like a bajillion dollars a year???

BigD5 · January 17, 2006 10:16PM

I knew the quick and easy reply would be similar to the comments above.

If they implemented the buyer's fee, and eliminated the listing fee at the same time, don't you think there would be a HUGE increase in the amount of items listed?

I know there would be.

So, with more items to choose, could coin buyers fight through a petty buyers fee?

EVERY auction house charges a buyers fee now. They're all still in business, no?

OffMetal · January 17, 2006 10:21PM

eBay goes right down the drain!

ddink · January 17, 2006 10:25PM

BigD5, I know it seems like a logical comparison, but by comparing auction houses with eBay you are comparing apples and oranges. For starters, eBay appeals to "common folk"--both buyers and sellers of mundane and often inexpensive items. Live auction houses depend on elites, whether it be art, antiques, coins, etc. If eBay eliminated the seller fees, the number of listings would skyrocket, but the number of bidders would collapse. As a result, prices would decline sharply (larger supply and less demand) and sellers would leave in droves. Don't forget that there are more (by far) buyers than sellers. That's one thing that's appealing about eBay...I can tell my grandmother to go check eBay for soandso item and if she wants it, she just has to register a user name and can pay by check or MO if she chooses. Casual bidders don't want to give out their credit card info just to bid on a $2 item.

P.S. You compare eBay's way of doing business with that of auction houses. Would you like to compare the profits of each?

Barndog · January 17, 2006 10:25PM

I believe in the "efficient market" theory. Big auction houses would continue to exist and ebay would continue to exist. Prices realized in an ebay with a buyer's fee would just adjust downward slightly...similar to the prices realized when someone charges way too much for shipping. Buyers (most of them anyway) will take into account all fees and other charges associated with a purchase. I know I account for auction houses' buyer fees and shipping when bidding on more common (type) coins.

ajaan · January 17, 2006 10:26PM

How would eBay collect the buyer's fee? Since payment is sent directly to the seller and not the auction house (eBay) I see no way for the fee to be collected unless all buyers are required to use PayPal.

sinin1 · January 17, 2006 10:28PM

no listing fee would turn the place into high retail - just look at yahoo or amazon

Michigan · January 17, 2006 10:56PM

<< no listing fee would turn the place into high retail - just look at yahoo or amazon >>

For a number of sellers Ebay is more like a price list than a true auction. Listing at current retail.

I like to list an item at 99 cents and watch the action. For high demand bread and butter coins there
is very little risk in this method. A PCGS slabbed 1909-S VDB Lincoln cent in VF condition for instance
will be a feeding frenzy with a 99 cent opening bid and no reserve.

BAJJERFAN · January 17, 2006 11:16PM

If they implemented the buyer's fee, and eliminated the listing fee at the same time, don't you think there would be a HUGE increase in the amount of items listed?

I know there would be.

So, with more items to choose, could coin buyers fight through a petty buyers fee?

If there were now 20 listings just like yours instead of 2 or 3 what are the odds of your item bringing strong money?

mercurydimeguy · January 17, 2006 11:27PM

<<For a number of sellers Ebay is more like a price list than a true auction. Listing at current retail.

I like to list an item at 99 cents and watch the action. For high demand bread and butter coins there
is very little risk in this method. A PCGS slabbed 1909-S VDB Lincoln cent in VF condition for instance
will be a feeding frenzy with a 99 cent opening bid and no reserve.>>

True auctions are only viable for things that have no value to the seller, or things that have hyper demand. For everything else, eBay is simply an inexpensive storefront.

I personally believe that a true auction is not an equitable model for certified collectibles -- not for the buyer nor for the seller, although we can debate this point at infinitum.

I believe that an open market where bids/asks are matched is the most equitable model for certified collectibles.

And for all of you who say you would leave eBay if they imposed a 2% buyer fee -- you're so full of it

Sure an obstinate few won't play, but most will -- they'll moan and complain like heck at the outset, but like the Borg, eBay will assimilate you.

People are eBay junkies -- there is actually talk of defining this additiction. They just can't seem to stay away. eBay is a "legal" way to get your endorphins going and to get that "rush" so many talk about. Also, people like to get over on others so eBay and sniping enables you to "feel good" about yourself...like you're a winner when you win an auction and get over on someone else.

Would you moan about an eBay buyer's fee? Sure. Would you pay? ABSOLUTELY! Where else can you go coin shopping at any time of the day, anywhere on the planet? eBay.

Whitby · January 17, 2006 11:55PM

Excellent points as to what a true auction "should" be. However, as you noted, E bay has become to alot of folks, a cheap store front.

If a buyer fee were implemented, IMO, Ebay would fail. The entire momentum of E bay is built on the idea of the virtual consumer whose only "requirement" for entry is web access. Thats rather slick, IMO. Otherwise, if you told me, hey pay up or shope elsewhere, do not be surprised if I do not use all the fingers on my hand when I wave good bye....

RedTiger · January 18, 2006 12:05AM

<< If they implemented the buyer's fee, and eliminated the listing fee at the same time, don't you think there would be a HUGE increase in the amount of items listed?

I know there would be.

So, with more items to choose, could coin buyers fight through a petty buyers fee?

If there were now 20 listings just like yours instead of 2 or 3 what are the odds of your item bringing strong money? >>

In one word, no. There would be a huge increase all right, a huge increase in overpriced garbage. The small listing fees prevents the spammers and those that have little desire in selling from spamming the listings with items that are priced at full retail and beyond. The huge increase in listings would actually make for fewer buyers, because most do not want to wade through 100 items priced at retail to find one or two coins that might be available for a competitive price.

My observations on true auctions: the vast majority of coins that cost under $200 usually go for between greysheet and retail. Higher priced items with limited demand are tougher to move, especially if the grade makes the price. Ebay, like some other auction sites is often the place where "dog" coins that barely make the grade end up being sold to unsuspecting newbies. I would recommend newbies avoid buying such coins unless they know how to grade (unlikely) and there is a decent return policy. It is difficult to evaluate high grade coins from a photo, no matter how detailed.

These days certified gold seems to go for close to retail, no matter how ugly.

Whitby · January 18, 2006 12:12AM

as a caveat, other collectables such as coal scrip or really other exomunia can and actually do well as far as grade (I can do scrip) and availability. As to dog coins, well, thats true with almost any "collectable" and yeah, newbies will get scammed. Thats true anywhere. Given the absolute fever pitch within the field of grading and its total perception (right or wrong it happens) in relation to value;I have actually avoided buying any US coins other than Moderns on E bay. Even then, once the grading hacks crawl out of the wood work, it butchers the joy, IMO.

Russ · January 18, 2006 2:21AM

<< How would eBay collect the buyer's fee? Since payment is sent directly to the seller and not the auction house (eBay) I see no way for the fee to be collected unless all buyers are required to use PayPal. >>

They'd simply add it to the seller's monthly invoice.

Russ, NCNE

BigD5 · January 18, 2006 4:00AM

Ddink, I wasn't trying to compare the auction houses to Ebay directly, but wanted to point out that with a 15% buyers fee, the auction houses sell quite a bit of coinage.

Bajjerfan, I'd love 20 more listings like mine. The more the merrier to me. I would sell more coins, period.

Mercurydimeguy, you said what I was thinking, primarily. People would moan and groan, but they would still buy. They may not think so right now, but it would happen. The Ebay "experience" is unlike any other out there, and not something that can be ignored.

As a seller, I KNOW I would list at least triple what I do now if there weren't listing fees. Just look at what happens when Ebay runs the .10cent listing days etc. The number of listings goes insane. That's GOOD NEWS for the buyers out there. More to choose from, and would create more competition. Niether of those would seem like a BAD thing if I was a buyer.

Someone let me know how that would be "BAD" for the buyer.

As far as worrying about overpriced spammed listings, see my comments above. There would be more listings and therefore more choices for the consumer which would make it tougher for the "spammer" to pull their sale off. If that doesn't make sense, look at all the overpriced crap listed now, and I don't think there's been much of a problem sifting so far.

I don't believe Ebay would "tank", and I think you would see an opposite effect. With more listings (because of reduced, or non-existant listing fees), there would end up in effect be more overall sales, which would mean an increase in final value fees, plus you add in the buyer's fees on top of that.

More to think about on a rainy day..........

ddink · January 18, 2006 6:33AM

<< Ddink, I wasn't trying to compare the auction houses to Ebay directly, but wanted to point out that with a 15% buyers fee, the auction houses sell quite a bit of coinage >>

Understood, but they appeal to altogether different users (buyers/sellers). I disagree about that nonsense that eBay "takes hold of you" and all that. I'd still use it, sure, but most casual users would find another venue...and believe me, another company would fill the vacuum left by eBay's decline.

BigD5 · January 18, 2006 11:18AM

I think the buyers on Ebay and auction houses are closer together, so to speak. The more the major auction houses solicit online bidding activity, the more buyers they are going to lure in, and many of those will be regular users of Ebay. It may not be extremely rampant right now, but the auction houses are definitely looking to expand this market, so it's in process.

I'd have to check, but when the major auction houses run their interactive bidding through Ebay I'd be curious as to what the fee structure there is. It could be the opening play towards what I'm suggesting in this thread.

michael · January 18, 2006 1:32PM

BigD5
Master Collector

Say, 2%?

But they also eliminated the listing fee for the seller.

Would that promote more listings?

Fewer buyers?

Armegeddon?

A GREAT IDEA and would work and create many more listings and more sales for the sellers and better prices for the buyers

everyone wins

ConstellatioCollector · January 18, 2006 1:35PM

Ebay already has all the money they need. PayPal is an aEbay company!

mercurydimeguy · January 18, 2006 1:35PM

eBay just raised the FVF to 3%, effective Feb 22, I believe.

BigD5 · January 18, 2006 1:55PM

2.75% to 3% isn't much, but it's what I heard as well, and what sparked the idea for the thread.

Where they get you is the listing fees.

Listing fees can top 7% at certain levels. Tack on the final value fees, and then paypal and you might as well have consigned the coin to an auction house and have them do the imaging etc. to sell the coin.

I guess my point is that Ebay is dangerously close to losing sellers with their fee structure.

MickeyD · January 18, 2006 1:58PM

I would continue to buy not matter the fee. It would still come off the sellers end. If I decide to pay a $100.00 for something and I buy it, I don't care how they split it up in the back room.

Bikingnut · January 18, 2006 8:55PM

I would stop buying from ebay.

BAJJERFAN · January 18, 2006 9:34PM

<< I would continue to buy not matter the fee. It would still come off the sellers end. If I decide to pay a $100.00 for something and I buy it, I don't care how they split it up in the back room. >>

The title of the post is buyer's fee meaning the buyer would pay 2% extra juice as I read it. Where do you get that the seller would pay it? The seller would collect from you and eBay would in turn collect from him.

BAJJERFAN · January 18, 2006 9:37PM

<< Bajjerfan, I'd love 20 more listings like mine. The more the merrier to me. I would sell more coins, period. >>

Darin; do you mean if all 20 of those listings were yours or if they were competition. I hardly see how you could benefit if the number of listings for 1881-S Morgans would double.

ebaytrader · January 18, 2006 9:54PM

Ebay is raising the seller's fee to 3% from 2.75% for sales in the $25-1000 range.

They did anounce a lowering of the insertion fee for items of less than .99¢ to .20¢ from .25¢. WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coinhusker1 · January 18, 2006 11:38PM

Don't even suggest this to Ebay. They would add the buyer's fee AND keep the listing fees.

ziggy29 · January 18, 2006 11:38PM

I hate buyer's fees. I suppose they work on suckers who forget to factor them into their bids, but for everyone else, it's a wash. If I'd pay $100 for a coin but there's a 10% buyer's fee, I'd only bid about $91. Either way it all comes out the same...but buyer's fees just seem to be more of a nuisance.

I think it would be suicide for a venue like eBay. Other auction houses with more sophisticated clientele could probably do it because they know how trhe game is played and know to just decrease their bid according to the percentage of the fee. But eBay? I'm not sure a lot of buyers want eBay to be able to charge them for bidding.

Coinhusker1 · January 18, 2006 11:42PM

Also, I'm not so sure if overall listings would increase that much. Many of the 99 cent NR auctions would shift to high starting bids, and shilling would decrease.

RedneckHB · January 18, 2006 11:48PM

While I hate to pay more than I have to, I doubt 2% would keep me from buying on Ebay.

As a seller, I oftentimes have many items under $10. I usually wait to list until they run specials. A 25c fee on a $10 item is 2.5%. That adds up nicely over time.

Nap · January 19, 2006 12:05AM

I don't see more listings per day as necessarily a benefit to buyers. The junk that comprises the majority of eBay listings (numismatic and other), which most buyers ignore, would just increase proportionally, maybe even more so, than the good stuff. Most people have limited time to peruse eBay, and more listings are likely to make finding good stuff all the more difficult, and might even slow down the site.

BAJJERFAN · January 19, 2006 3:09AM

Adding a buyer's fee without removing the FV fee would be hitting both parties. I doubt they wanna do that BUT you never know. Heritage already does this by charging both a commission and the "juice".

edited!!

Whitby · January 19, 2006 3:20AM

are you saying that the buyer fee is in reality sharing the purchase fee?

BAJJERFAN · January 19, 2006 11:22AM

<< are you saying that the buyer fee is in reality sharing the purchase fee? >>

No; after rereading my post I edited it for clarity.

What if Ebay implemented a buyers fee?

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