New member....Q's on cleaned coins
jmj3esq
Posts: 5,421 ✭
I am a new member to the site and am getting back into coin collecting (Mostly Morgan Dollars). I have recently bought some Morgans on ebay. My concern is how can I tell if I have received a cleaned coin? What constitutes cleaning? Will cleaning a coin with simple soap and water make a coin non grade? How "cleaned" does a coin have to be to get a non grade? Some of the coins I buy dont look polished, but they lack the common "cartwheel" luster. They have an overall shine to them. I dont want to send a bunch of coins to PCGS and get back a handfull of body bags. Sorry for all the Q's I just have soem concerns.
0
Comments
******
Russ, NCNE
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
..............
2) Cleaning with anything abrasive is bad (an acetone bath is the safest, I would stay away from soap and water)
3) I would buy PCGS coins, but I wouldn't submit any to them (it tends to be cheaper)
<< <i>Acitone? It seems like that would be harsh on a coin. What does it do? >>
Acetone doesn't react with the coin metal so it's pretty safe, assuming it's 100% pure. It's good for removing PVC. But, don't be lighting up while using it.
Russ, NCNE
Euss, NCNE
is this a name change Russ??????
Text
<< <i>What about this auction? The coin looks great with a reasoanble price.
Text >>
Oh boy. At least this guy lets you return it. Minus a 15% restocking fee of course LOL
Also be sure to use the 'search' function on these boards to look through older posts on this or other subjects. You will find that many things have been discussed here in the past that you may find useful.
In my opinion, based on your question, you may want to take a step back and review what your trying to accomplish with your collecting. If your trying to build a valuable (emotionally or in terms of monetary value) collection, then buying raw and submitting them to PCGS may not be your best choice. Not only do you pay for the slabbing, you absolutely run the risk that your coin has a problem that will keep it out of a holder and significantly affect its value. As another poster suggested, buying raw coins from ebay can be an extremely risky activity if someone doesn't know what they are doing. In the end you are far more likely to end up on the losing end than getting a 'deal' by buying raw and submitting.
If however, you are just trying to learn or get your feet wet, by all means buy raw. Buy some books, go nuts, have fun. Just keep the cost of the coins low so your not out much if they turn out to be problem coins.
To address your specific questions about cleaning, use the search function and I think you will find alot of good reading on cleaning in general and acetone.
<< <i>What about this auction? The coin looks great with a reasoanble price. >>
If its not in a holder there's a reason for it. Either it will grade low enough to make it not worth the slabbing fees, or it is a problem coin. Always assume this when bidding and you'll do fine.
My opinion only.
To answer your question, spotting a cleaned coin takes experience more than anything.
Dipping, wiping, whizzing, and other means of cleaning a coin all have distinctive effects on coins which, with experience, can be easily spotted.
Do a search on this forum and you'll find lots of info, but in the end experience will be your best teacher...Mike
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I've build my 21-D and PCGS Morgan Registry sets off raw eBay coins so they aren't all
bad. Just stick with PCGS board members and recommended dealers to avoid issues.
Cleaned means the surface has been messed up with to the point the coin is hairlined or
dipped so much it's luster is badly compromised. Emersing in soap and water is ok, but rubbing
the coin will leave hairlines. Soap and water won't do much really. Pat dry gently, then air dry.
Acetone also removes gunk safely. Use 100% pure from the hardware store.
Free Trial
The absolute best possible thing I think you can do to get a good idea of what cleaned coins look like as compared to original ones is look at thousands of coins. I find that the best way to accomplish this is to go to a regional coin show (here in western Pennsylvania we have the twice yearly PAN show) and patiently look through dealers 2x2 carded inventory.
When looking make a note of coins that exibit strong lustre (like the "cartwheel" you mentioned), even and unabraded surfaces and smooth natural looking color. Also make a note of really terrible looking coins and why they look so terrible. Do they show numerous hairlines (tiny, fine scratches), porosity, gouges, corrosion, damage, etc? After looking at many coins you will have a much better idea of what an original coin looks like. This process will also help you discover what kind of "look" most appeals to you in your chosen series. Nothing compares to the value of experience, and this is the best way to get it.
That being said, a word about etiquite: always plan on buying something from the dealer whose merchandise you learn from. I made it a point to buy about $20 worth of material from any dealer whose stock I poured over. I didn't really care what the coin was as I was more interested in general knowledge than adding something to my collection. In the end I wound up selecting coins that showed me an example of something to avoid. For example, I now own a whizzed coin, a harshly cleaned coin, a coin with PVC damage, a coin which had been dipped a few times too many and an artificially toned coin just to name a few. These coins serve as excellent reference now that they're home and I gained a lot of knowledge while I was out looking through the inventory that I found them in.
Have fun with all of this! The adventure is in the hunt!
In the auction you asked about, the 1904 O DMPL? The photos used to demonstrate the Deep Mirroring do not look like the coin in the other pictures, did you notice that? They are also off focus to where yu can't read the date on the coin. Also, the 1904 O is quite common and at the $61 price it was at when I looked, it's already near full retail value for a MS64 '04 O (which this coin is at best). Keep watching that auction, and I will bet the coin won't go over $100 (and it shouldn't really go for that much). If something looks to good to be true, it ain't! A true DMPL would go for $450 or up to $550 if it were genuine.
This auction looks like a variation on the old bait and switch method of tricking someone. If you get the coin and the auction price is say $150 and the coin is only a $65 coin, you have to pay a restocking fee to return it. The seller can make a lot of money off one overgraded coin that way until someone keeps it...at the overpriced level.
My best advise to you is to slow down (I know that's hard when you are so enthusiastic right now) and study the books on your favorite series. Also, do some searching here on this list under Morgan dollars and you can bring up a ton of great photos and discussions as to where they grade. Priceless education!
If buy you must, I'd try to hit the local coin shops and buy the more common (less expensive) Morgans in either PCGS, NGC or ANACS graded slabs and forget raw coins for a while until you are up to speed with your grading skills and your skills at spotting problem coins.
Please know that there are many good honest coin seller out there and it's not all bad.
Again, welcome and hope you enjoy the forum and your coins.
Best wishes, Pete
Louis Armstrong