Anyone else find it curious that PCGS has not graded a single 1901 Shifted Eagle or 1903 Micro-S hig

Rampage · January 13, 2006 9:35AM

I was just searching the pops and noticed that. I also noticed that all the Scarfaces have been graded either MS62 or MS63-nothing higher, nothing lower. Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was strange.

RobJoyce1921dVAMguy · January 13, 2006 10:04AM

The scarfaces seem to have come out of some of the uncirculated coins held back from circulation. The shifted eagles seem to have been released and used. I've never seen an unc shifted eagle (although some 1901 non-shifted eagle uncs almost look like they were struck as circulated). I've also never seen a scarface that circulated. They are usually lusterous but baggy.

Rob

ziggy29 · January 13, 2006 10:22AM

TPGs put great importance on "precedent" with respect to existing population censuses. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these 58s would be 62s and 63s if there were already a few coins with the higher grades in the census.

coinkat · January 13, 2006 10:52AM

No... it is highly likely that neither coin exists in MS.

fc · January 13, 2006 10:59AM

well if my conspiracy theory holds true, that means NGC should
have a pops that is slightly grade inflated for the two coins.
There should be an MS60-61, but no higher (unless an anomoly).

anyone check to feed my conspiracy theory please?

messydesk · January 13, 2006 11:09AM

Since a given die pair's production run for a rare die variety was probably either all circulated or all stored, it makes just as much sense as the fact that the 1878 VAM 14.11 is typically high grade. 1901 is a bad example, because they were all struck in AU. I guess if you buy into the NGC grade inflation theory, then you could use the fact that they graded the only MS 1888-O Hot Lips, which was subsequently graded AU58 by PCGS (see some recent thread) as convenient anecdotal evidence.

ziggy29 · January 13, 2006 11:30AM

<< <i>well if my conspiracy theory holds true, that means NGC should
have a pops that is slightly grade inflated for the two coins.
There should be an MS60-61, but no higher (unless an anomoly).

anyone check to feed my conspiracy theory please? >>

Is the 1901 VAM-3? There are 7 in 58, none higher.

For the '03-S, NGC has one in 62, the only one in MS.

fc · January 13, 2006 11:38AM

ziggy29,

thanks. those pops seem right in line with PCGS except for
the MS62 sticking out as the finest graded by both TPGs.

so much for my theory.

LanceNewmanOCC · March 26, 2014 3:50PM

.
well we now live in a an age where 1901 vam3 in unc are known to exist!
.

keyman64 · March 26, 2014 4:01PM

Until list week, with well over 4 years of looking by myself and others, the FINEST KNOWN 1941 DDO FS-101 Mercury Dime was AU-58.
It is the rarest MERC VARIETY in the complete variety set with now only 6 examples known and attributed.
I Cherrypicked the 6th example found. It is also the ONLY MINT STATE EXAMPLE KNOWN and FINEST BY 7 POINTS at MS65.

So, if a 1941 Mercury Dime Variety can be SUPER RARE, then it is of no surprise that a coin from 1901 or 1903 can be rare.

DennisH · March 26, 2014 8:23PM

There are 4 Shifted Eagles graded Mint State by PCGS, as seen in this screen shot of the Pop Report I just took:

One thing to keep in mind is that before PCGS began identifying some VAMs by specific VAM number and VAM name, it identified a few of them with generic names... like "Doubled Die Reverse" for the 1901 Shifted Eagle, "Doubled Die Obverse" for the 1888-O Hot Lips, and "Small S" for the 1903 micro S.

keets · March 26, 2014 8:33PM

well if my conspiracy theory holds true,

while it may/may not be true that NGC is softer than PCGS I don't think that applies to a coin with obvious high point friction.

Nickcap · March 26, 2014 9:34PM

Do you guys realize you are responding to a thread from 2006?

keets · March 26, 2014 9:38PM

well, not until now!!!

AUandAG · March 27, 2014 1:15AM

There are two scarface's at MS64 and one at MS63+ and 7 at MS61.

PCGS plastic.

But yes, the majority are at 62 and 63. I presume that this is such a dramatic break that folks
saved them as soon as they saw them. Plus, it might be hard to determine below MS as the
crack runs across the first place and might just wear down before anything else.

bob

GoldenEyeNumismatics · March 27, 2014 3:05PM

Some scarfaces came out of BU 1888-O mint bags during the treasury release.

However, I'm aware of no 1903-S Micro S or 1901 DDR that came out of bags. They were all released into general circulation.

Anyone else find it curious that PCGS has not graded a single 1901 Shifted Eagle or 1903 Micro-S hig

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