2005 Westward Journey Nickel Series Coin Set

coinshow · January 7, 2006 9:27AM

How do you guys think this set will do? Issued from the mint for $12.95 and last years sets are selling for more than double.

Nickel Set

BigBen · January 7, 2006 6:22PM

Personally, I think it will do really well down the road because of several factors......

1) As reported by CoinWorld, at this point, they are the only known source of Doubled Die Errors
2) 1-year design nickels
3) They did NOT sellout before the law shut off sales on Dec. 24th
4) Alot of people are breaking them open and separating the coins
5) People with the 2004 version will want it to complete their set

As time moves on and the old boring nickel returns, these are going to be more in demand. They could even go through the roof in 5 or 10 years. That's my humble prediction

Cheers,

BigBen

coinshow · January 8, 2006 12:24AM

Well said. Do you know what people are paying for them currently?

tincup · January 8, 2006 12:31AM

Not sure what they are selling for now. But I think that nearly all the Mint issues this year with the nickels and Marine dollars will do well into the future. Neat designs, and limited issues.

natescoins2005 · January 8, 2006 4:54AM

I just got my 2004 2005 westward journey in the mail Friday I paid 60 or 65 plus shipping. They are very nice looking a specially the San Francisco mint

BigBen · January 8, 2006 2:30PM

If you go on ebay right now, especially when there are less bidders (Friday, Saturday, Sunday nights) you can get them pretty cheap right now. I've seen some go for UNDER their original value from sellers with 100% ratings in the last couple days. I've been able to snag a few for dirt cheap because of this. From my view on the horizon, everyone who did buy these sets is throwing them up for auction in hopes of quick riches without realizing they are creating a temporary glut which is driving prices down. What's going to happen is collectors, not dealers (important point!) buying them in numbers and stashing them in a rather diffuse way, which will ultimately make these more scarce, driving the price up considerably. Dealers who bought 1000 sets will dump them for a few bucks above cost in this initial period (the best time to buy!) to many collectors who will not want to part with them unless the price goes sky high. So now is the time to buy any of the 2005 Westward Journey Products because they are still cheap! I'm still bugged at not buying 2004 stuff, so I made up for it by becoming a "coin economist" for 2005 LOL.....

BigBen

Bochiman · January 8, 2006 2:47PM

Bigben,

In addition to what you said, another potential reason for the glut you see is that speculators bought many sets. Speculators need to have money come back to them quickly. So, they speculated, bought many sets, and need to sell them quickly. The next 'best' thing is just around the corner and they can't keep cash tied up.

So, these didn't go up quickly, like many thought, and they need to be sold. If even for a loss. To get the cash back.

That's my guess for part of the reason of the lower price/glut.

BigBen · January 8, 2006 2:58PM

Excellent point! Yes that crossed my mind so thanks for bring that up. I guess after the speculators dump most of their inventory and don't have much left to sell is when prices will rise. How do you feel about that? Or should I say how long would it take for collectors to absorb enough sets to swing the supply curve?

Bochiman · January 8, 2006 3:05PM

Depends on many things....including the mint.
If the mint pushes the "2006 Westward Nickel series" more, then people will likely want them all.
So, 2005 sets should rise a bit.

Promotion means a lot in this market, so for these to rise quickly, there needs to be a continued nickel promotion.

Also, people are paying for Xmas credit card debts this month, then prepping for taxes in April. That may hinder the market a little.
Too, this set includes the buffalo nickel and there were TONS of those scarfed up by people....so, who needs more?

I don't look for a large increase (hope I am wrong because I am sitting on 6 sets (1/2 for us and 1/2 for "speculation")) without the mint's help as noted above, until at least the middle of the year.

BigBen · January 8, 2006 3:36PM

Bochiman,

Again, excellent points. What are your thoughts on the Ocean View Rolls, Nickel Coin Covers, Ocean View Bags, 2005 Coin and Medal Sets, etc.? Any of these stand out? I picked up some of the Westward coin covers after reading the sales numbers. Under 24,000 Ocean View Covers and under 29,000 Keelboat Covers were sold before the Mint shut off sales on December 25th, which is really low. I also read that under 4,500 1,000 coin Ocean in View bags exist (I bought two and put them away). The big question mark is the Ocean View Rolls, because nobody was really buying them after getting stung (like I did!) with the Bison Rolls. They only made about 1/4 of the Ocean View Rolls compared to the Bison, so I'm curious if this will be another Peace Nickel Roll ride, or was the Peace Nickel roll a fluke because people were breaking them all up, etc.

BigBen

Bochiman · January 8, 2006 4:31PM

<< <i>Bochiman,

Again, excellent points. What are your thoughts on the Ocean View Rolls, Nickel Coin Covers, Ocean View Bags, 2005 Coin and Medal Sets, etc.? Any of these stand out? I picked up some of the Westward coin covers after reading the sales numbers. Under 24,000 Ocean View Covers and under 29,000 Keelboat Covers were sold before the Mint shut of sales on December 25th, which is really low. I also read that under 4,500 1,000 coin Ocean in View bags exist (I bought two and put them away). The big question mark is the Ocean View Rolls, because nobody was really buying them after getting stung (like I did!) with the Bison Rolls. They only made about 1/4 of the Ocean View Rolls compared to the Bison, so I'm curious if this will be another Peace Nickel Roll ride, or was the Peace Nickel roll a fluke because people were breaking them all up, etc.

BigBen >>

Ben,

These are just MY thoughts....many on here can chime in with more experience and great thoughts.
That said.....

I bought some 1st day covers as well. However, while I would sell them in a heartbeat if they go up, they were more for "collections" and gifts, but with the speculative heart.
I don't think any FDC will ever really go up. Not enough collect them and they have no real purpose in numismatic history....imho.

The bags....I don't think they will see much in our lifetime. A few of the SHQ bags have gone up, but most haven't. Who will want a collection of coins in bags that lose any value above face when the bag is opened? The bags only have value, again imho, when the coins are known to come nicer from the bag or when the coin is hard to get otherwise. After that, the bags have no real value until toning may occur or the MS samples have really become hard to find. Won't happen with these quarters.

2005 C&M sets will do well for those that want "US Mint 'completeness'", but that is about it.
The set wasn't great, nothing unique for the set really (nothing of numismatic value), and again, there are no comparison collectibles for this.

For the Ocean View rolls, I think they have the potential to go up. I think the buff nickels are played out in a lot of ways. Too many made, too many sold. A replay, in some ways, of the old nickel. Everything is buffalo buffalo buffalo. The Ocean View, imho, is a nice looking reverse on the nickel. One of the best reverses I have seen on any coin. It gets away from what all the others have had and is pleasing as well. Hopefully, others feel like that as well.

BigBen · January 8, 2006 11:46PM

Bochiman,

Here my thoughtspredictions with the stuff we just talked about.......

1) Westward Journey First Day Covers- First day covers don't usually get limited to 23,000 like the Ocean in View did, and we are talking about a historic one-year design as well. They also have alot more interesting picturestory that explains each nickel's design as well. The thing that I had in mind in buying them was that 1) I really like them (duh!) 2) VERY LOW numbers with the one-year design and 3) The fact that most collectorspeculators totally blew off these things incorrectly (in my opinion), comparing them to First Day covers of the past without looking at the unique aspects of this year and the Dec. 25th deadline. If the Mint resumes selling the existing stock down the road, then the Keelboat and Peace Nickel covers would take a big hit because of the 200,000 limit ceiling. The Bison cover would also take a hit as well, but due to 100,000 may have good value in the long-term. The Ocean in View cover is a different animal. Even if the Mint resumed sales, thay could only sell 26k to 27k more because of the 50,000 ceiling. As it stands now, only about 23,000 are in the public's hands, so I think I did really well

I bought several of these to throw in the attic and forget about. If you check out eBay, these things are already going up. I just saw a complete set of Westward coin covers go for $129.00 in an auction, compared to about $80 for four from the Mint before sales were cut off, and Ocean in Views are getting $35 a piece, If you can find them! If the legislation doesn't pass, those Ocean and Keelboat covers could be seeing $100 to $200 on Ebay by next year. I have about 7 Ocean View covers, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

2) Ocean View Bags- Westward Nickel fans are aware of the errors in these coins, and some will want to buy bags for error searching. Some will want it because it's a one-year design. Some will want to be one of the 4,300 people who own one. I don't know the numbers for the Peace and Keelboat bags, but 4,300 bags for a one-year design?????!!! There doesn't have to be many people to want this one, because out of the 4,300 will be many opened bags, reducing this thing to true rarity. Worst case scenario, I still have a bag of nickels that I can cash in at the bank lol. Great possibility here.....

3) 2005 C&M Set- This one will rise, but since the mintage is triple that of 2004, I don't think we'll see a huge price hike for while.

4) Ocean in View- This is the big question mark for me. I think the scenario is in place for these to become really valuable in the long-term. Just how valuable is anyone's guess, but I do think it will pass the Keelboat at least. The Keelboats are generally double or triple their original price, so it's not out of reach for Ocean View's to get to $40-$60.

I think the next stop for me is the Ben Franklin Coins and Chronicle Set, but we've all gotta wait until April to physically receive one^&#%$^&$^*

Cheers!

BigBen

291fifth · January 9, 2006 12:05AM

Ten years down the road they probably won't have much of a following. The market will have moved on to something else.

shmort6552 · January 9, 2006 12:18AM

You fellows know a lot more about this than I so I'll ask, will the fact that the 2005 is the last year of that particular Jeff profile make much of a difference in the price?

Just did a real quick search on e-bay. Found 3 of the nickel sets which were listed on January 2--zero bids ($15.75 starting price)
1 lot of 3 sets, also listed on January 2--zero bids $46.00 start
3 more individual listings, all with $15.75 starting bid. Only one had the opener.

BigBen · January 9, 2006 1:24AM

"Ten years down the road they probably won't have much of a following. The market will have moved on to something else. "

I think coins are just like music or art or certain fashions. If they have a timless appeal, then they will out live the fad, regardless of how much time passes. Good examples in coins are Morgans, Standing Liberty, Buffalo nickle, Mercury, etc etc. If the Westward Journey series has timeless appeal then 20 years from now the stuff that's rare in this series will be worth a fortune, if not, then it's going wither away. Only time will tell how this works out, but the factors are in place for long standing collector appeal in my humble opinion.

BigBen · January 9, 2006 1:50AM

shmort6552,

Yeah, you can get some really great deals on these because people who speculated that in the weeks after the Dec.25th cut off, these sets would be selling for $30 to $40 per set and they would make a boat load of cash. What they didn't speculate on is everyone else doing the same thing! They also didn't consider that most people were unaware of the law requiring all products containing Westward Nickels to NOT be sold after Dec. 24th. Many people and even dealers are still waking up this fact! So there is enough short supply to exceed demand, and that's why you occasionally see these sets selling for $10 bucks in an auction! What's going to happen in a few weeks is that prices will rise because 1) Average collectors are buying several sets a piece at bargain prices, taking them off the market, 2) The speculators will have recouped enough money from the initial sales to lay low for a while and will pull their remaining sets off the market and wait for prices to go back up, and 3) The coin collecting world will have fully realized that barring Congress acting on that bill to let the mint open sales of existing stocks, everything is effectively "sold out".

A good example of what has happened would be the Westward Nickel coin covers. Up until just a few days ago, people couldn't give them away on Ebay. I bought a bunch of them for an average of $15 a piece from different sellers! Well, since few people bought them before the Mint closed sales (23,000 for the Ocean View, 29,000 for the Keelboat), they are hard to find! The Peace and Bison covers aren't too hard to find, but even those had low sales (42k for the Peace, 83k for the Bison), so now they are getting bid on and prices are rising. All the Ocean View covers have almost dissapeared, and those have risen in price fast in just days. I think the Westward Journey Nickel Coin Set will have the same thing, but it will take longer. All I know is I'm gettin them cheap while I can!!!!

aficionado · January 9, 2006 1:55AM

The mint did have comments stating that if legislation passed they would be selling more of the 2005 nickel sets. This was on the web, although I can't find it now.

Second, I bought 20 of these and the coins were so bad I sent 18 back. If I sell on ebay I like to sell quality stuff, I wouldn't sell this crap and I don't think the mint should either. I mean 12.95 for .30 worth of coins looking no better than the change in my pocket, no thanks.

coinshow · January 9, 2006 5:19AM

How bout the Benjamin Franklin Commemorative Coins and the
Benjamin Franklin Coin & Chronicals Set that comes out on January 17. How do you think this set will do. Do you think it will do as well as the john marshall set?

NoGvmnt · January 9, 2006 5:37AM

"1) As reported by CoinWorld, at this point, they are the only known source of Doubled Die Errors"

What Doubled Die Errors?

Thanks, Jim

MajorDuty · January 9, 2006 5:44AM

<< <i>"1) As reported by CoinWorld, at this point, they are the only known source of Doubled Die Errors"

What Doubled Die Errors?

Thanks, Jim >>

There are a couple interesting threads about them, with pictures. Do a search and you might find them. I'd post a link but I'm supposed to be working.

2manycoins2fewfunds · January 9, 2006 6:56AM

There are true doubled die variations in both the Bison and Ocean in View coins. So far these have only been found in the 2005 Westward Journey 6 coin nickel sets. Be aware there are at least 3 different versions of Doubled Die coins in the Bison and OIV!!! I got in early and have official credit for finding 3 of the versions.

Search message board for 'bison'. there are several threads discussing this in detail.

BigBen · January 9, 2006 4:25PM

Hi Coinshow,

The Ben Franklin Coin & Chronicles set has some real potential, simply because it's Ben Franklin! Ben is really popular, so that alone may create the demand that drives prices up. The worst you could do is buy some extras, and if they don't take off, keep one or two for your collection and sell the rest on Ebay. You should at least get what you paid for the extras, so the risk is minimal. Personally, I'm a total sucker for all these historical sets the Mint is putting out

I just bought a George Washington Folio (no coin) and think it's really cool. I buy this stuff just for personal interest, but since most of this stuff is limited in nature, they could become collectable over time.

Here is my personal wishlist for the the sold out historical mint stuff (if anybody has these and wants to trade please let me know, I have Ocean View Mint Rolls, 2005 Westward Journey Sets, etc):

1) American Buffalo Coin and Currency Set
2) Lewis and Clark Coin and Pouch Set
3) 2004 Lewis and Clark Coin and Currency Set
4) John Marshal Coin and Chronicles Set
5) Ben Franklin Coin and Chronicles Set (soon!)

Cheers!

BigBen

2005 Westward Journey Nickel Series Coin Set

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