Uninsured items are shipped at buyer’s risk.

Russ · January 4, 2006 11:22AM

Just a tip for eBay sellers who may not realize it. That disclaimer will do you no good in the event of a chargeback through PayPal, even if the buyer voluntarily declines insurance.

Russ, NCNE

cullenbryant · January 4, 2006 11:24AM

sounds like your title should read
"uninsured items are shipped at sellers risk"

fcloud · January 4, 2006 11:28AM

Even if you have a receipt for shipping?

ttown · January 4, 2006 11:30AM

<< Even if you have a receipt for shipping? >>

You shipped me a empty box, so what now and who do you think wins this arguement?

Russ · January 4, 2006 11:30AM

<< Even if you have a receipt for shipping? >>

If you have signature confirmation that is trackable online, you'd be fine.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · January 4, 2006 11:32AM

<< << Even if you have a receipt for shipping? >>

You shipped me a empty box, so what now and who do you think wins this arguement? >>

It would actually be a tossup who would win, with the likelihood slightly favoring the seller.

Russ, NCNE

cullenbryant · January 4, 2006 11:32AM

<< If you have signature confirmation that is trackable online, you'd be fine >>

now here's a scenario for all ebay pro's.
buyer claims not to have received item.... delivery conf. shows otherwise
buyer has unverified address but paypal address matches ebay checkout page address.
who wins

ttown · January 4, 2006 11:34AM

<< 

<< << Even if you have a receipt for shipping? >>

You shipped me a empty box, so what now and who do you think wins this arguement? >>

It would actually be a tossup who would win, with the likelihood slightly favoring the seller.

Russ, NCNE >>

I can tell you now maybe with Paypal but once I turned it over to my American Express it's a differernt story so Paypal would be eating this deal.

Russ · January 4, 2006 11:39AM

<< I can tell you now maybe with Paypal but once I turned it over to my American Express it's a differernt story so Paypal would be eating this deal. >>

Yep, Amex automatically sides with the buyer even when the buyer is lying. That's one of the reasons I refuse to accept their cards in my business. The other being that their merchant fees are dramatically higher than Visa and Mastercard.

Russ, NCNE

ttown · January 4, 2006 11:45AM

The best for both parties is to have insurance period. If the seller doesn't send the package or sends you a box a rocks Paypal won't do a thing if there's not any money in his account. They may expel the seller but that's about it for protection for the buyer. As always buyer beware! And of course the majority of honest sellers on Ebay.

BTW Russ the coin I brought from you through Paypal on Ebay was put on my AMEX, you must have more than one bussiness.

100proof1957 · January 4, 2006 11:46AM

Dang it !

I hate to agree with Russ but this time he is 110 % correct

this has been discussed a million times,you have to prove it was delivered and the green ticket is not enough proof !

registered or blue insured,otherwise you r well and truly flocked

Russ · January 4, 2006 11:49AM

<< BTW Russ the coin I brought from you through Paypal on Ebay was put on my AMEX, you must have more than one bussiness. >>

In my real business I accept credit cards direct. With PayPal there's no way to exclude specific cards.

Russ, NCNE

ttown · January 4, 2006 11:57AM

Russ,

Nice coin BTW and one of the few times I've used the BST forum to buy something on Ebay. I paid top dollar for it but hey I'm happy, it was the coin I was looking for. I'm not ttown on Ebay since it was long ago taken.

SUPERCARCOINS · January 4, 2006 12:02PM

are you aware that the post office can't track " insured " mail ?? If it comes up lost they have no idea where it went .

Delivery conformation for an extra 40 or 50 cents IS trackable and makes everybody sleep better !

Glavin · January 4, 2006 12:51PM

Did you know the U.S.P.S. does not insure coins?

100proof1957 · January 4, 2006 12:58PM

Supercar,

that green slip only says it was delivered,it dont say where !

Glavin is correct but they insure collectibles

LucyBop · January 4, 2006 12:58PM

<< Did you know the U.S.P.S. does not insure coins? >>

no ididnt know this, and neither does my local post office, maybe you should call them and inform them of your expertise in this area. as they recently made good on a insurance claim i had with a lost coin that was insured.

BAJJERFAN · January 4, 2006 1:00PM

<< are you aware that the post office can't track " insured " mail ?? If it comes up lost they have no idea where it went . >>

Not true at all; that number on the edge of your insurance receipt is an internal tracking number and in fact provides more info than delivery confirmation.

Glavin · January 4, 2006 1:05PM

Cool, glad they refunded you..
So your saying it was insured as a collectible? or a coin?

ttown · January 4, 2006 1:09PM

It doesn't matter if it's a collectable or a coin there both the same. UPS is the company that will insure your package and once lost will deny your claim because it's a collectable. Rare Pocket Watches come to mind when you ship to a client using eithe company.

100proof1957 · January 4, 2006 1:11PM

Bajjer is also correct,u just cant track it on line .

Russellhome · January 4, 2006 2:24PM

It didn't have anything to do with not having insurance, but I had Paypal reverse the charges for 4 auctions a guy won from me (approx. $200 total). They did this a full 30 days after the auctions ended. So the guy had my coins and got his money back. I had emptied my Paypal account, so the rollback was against an empty balance. So I started getting nasty messages from Paypal about having a negative balance. To say the least, I was upset.

Thankfully, the guy who won these items what honest and paid me (again). It turns out that when he set up his Paypal account, he forgot to record the 3 digit pin from the back of his credit card. Some internal audit computer program caught it weeks later and automatically started rolling back all of the auctions this guy had paid for (I was one of many). Paypal never contacted him about it -- he heard about the problem from me. After contacting Paypal to figure out what the problem was -- they fixed the problem that caused the audit flag -- but they did not fix the rollbacks. He had to go back and figure out what got rolled back and pay for it again.

What a mess -- and pretty scary. That is why I don't link my Paypal accout to my bank acount. I don't trust them.

jonathanb · January 4, 2006 2:33PM

I had the opposite problem. I bought "3250 Mercury dimes" from a seller who only delivered 2250 -- a difference of about $500 in melt value (more now, but this was a few months ago). I tried to get it resolved through PayPal, but after jerking me around for a month and a half, the best they could do was to allow me to return to the seller the $1100 worth of coins that I already had in hand, and they'd try to see if they could recover a few hundred dollars from him for me. How stupid is that? Now I've started a complaint through my credit card, and I should hear something in another 90 days. Sigh.

Best bet: don't buy from skanky sellers. Yeah, good luck.

jonathan

Russellhome · January 4, 2006 2:44PM

<< I had the opposite problem...

jonathan >>

That would be funny if it were not so disconcerting. They stole money from me (a seller that did nothing wrong) for what the audit program deemed 'Possible unauthorized use' and they could not (or would not) get the money back from a truly fraudulent seller?

Why does it not surprise me!

BlindedByEgo · January 4, 2006 4:10PM

<< I had the opposite problem. I bought "3250 Mercury dimes" from a seller who only delivered 2250 -- a difference of about $500 in melt value (more now, but this was a few months ago). I tried to get it resolved through PayPal, but after jerking me around for a month and a half, the best they could do was to allow me to return to the seller the $1100 worth of coins that I already had in hand, and they'd try to see if they could recover a few hundred dollars from him for me. How stupid is that? Now I've started a complaint through my credit card, and I should hear something in another 90 days. Sigh.

Best bet: don't buy from skanky sellers. Yeah, good luck.

jonathan >>

C'mon... Out the seller! We're waiting...

lonelyp · January 4, 2006 5:23PM

This kind of thread bothers me.
As an honest person, the kind that tell a chechout person they gave me the wrong change, or missed a gal. of milk. If I buy something on ebay and tell the seller I didn't get it. You can bet you a$$ I didn't.

To date the only problem I have had was not an ebay deal. And Paypal was also not a part of it. But i do use Paypal when buying on ebay. Not saying I never bought anything I shouldn't have.

But I haven't had a seller not send the item, or had it not delivered eventually.

I want sellers to continue to use Paypal. And I want my deals to go smoothly. I don't like to hear about such problems with Paypal. they could screw up my 100% feedback at no fault to me or my sellers, if they mess up my account.

Boom · January 4, 2006 6:48PM

All these sellers that say they are not responsible for lost, stolen or mis-delivered items (BUYER NEVER GOT IT) ARE responsible. I find this statement over and over again in an effort to make you pay for USPS insurance when in fact, if paid for with PayPal, the seller IS responsible no matter what he says. They really ought to read PayPal's Sellers' Protection Plan.

All they have to do is ship within a certain time frame and use Delivery Confirmation. If they accept payment thru PayPal, the responsibility to deliver rests squarely on the shoulders of the seller and for the record, this really sorta sucks. Just because the seller uses Del Conf does NOT mean it was delivered to the correct address, it just proves one thing...it was delivered....somewhere.

I have had sellers send insured packages with SIGNATURE Confirmation that were delivered down the road, left stuffed in the mailbox, totally unsigned for. Now THAT is Gross Incompetence!

ElKevvo · January 4, 2006 7:50PM

When I buy/sell stuff on eBay (not too frequently) it is not the buyer or seller who I worry about, the weak link in the whole transaction is the Post Office in my opinion! Not bashing them, but just wish they would do a better job, have better tracking of packages, and take a little more responsibility for insuring things are delivered properly from point a to b.

For some reason we have poor service where I live, it might be like this everywhere but I have no other frame of reference...I hope it is better elsewhere! I have packages lost, many things misdelivered, etc. The other day there was a pickup truck parked in front of my house that prevented the driver from pulling up to the mailbox...it was not parked in front of the mailbox, just off to the side but close enough so that the mail person could not pull up exactly in front of and place the mail in the box. So where did it end up? It was placed under the windshield wiper of the truck! They have also placed packages balanced on top of the mailbox, etc. Just too much to walk the 30 feet to the door or get out of the mail truck to put the things in the mailbox in the preceding example!. And they wonder why things get lost....

relayer · January 4, 2006 8:14PM

<< Now I've started a complaint through my credit card, and I should hear something in another 90 days. Sigh. >>

Your PayPal account will be closed for doing a charge back against PayPal.

Get all your funds out of your account NOW - PayPal will take it.

Coinhusker1 · January 4, 2006 9:23PM

<< It didn't have anything to do with not having insurance, but I had Paypal reverse the charges for 4 auctions a guy won from me (approx. $200 total). They did this a full 30 days after the auctions ended. So the guy had my coins and got his money back. I had emptied my Paypal account, so the rollback was against an empty balance. So I started getting nasty messages from Paypal about having a negative balance. To say the least, I was upset.

Thankfully, the guy who won these items what honest and paid me (again). It turns out that when he set up his Paypal account, he forgot to record the 3 digit pin from the back of his credit card. Some internal audit computer program caught it weeks later and automatically started rolling back all of the auctions this guy had paid for (I was one of many). Paypal never contacted him about it -- he heard about the problem from me. After contacting Paypal to figure out what the problem was -- they fixed the problem that caused the audit flag -- but they did not fix the rollbacks. He had to go back and figure out what got rolled back and pay for it again.

What a mess -- and pretty scary. That is why I don't link my Paypal accout to my bank acount. I don't trust them. >>

I thought all Paypal accounts had to have a bank account linked to it. I don't have a merchant PP account, so maybe those don't -- if someone could clarify that would be great.

Barry · January 4, 2006 9:34PM

I have one Paypal acct with only a CC attached, for buying (no bank acct.) I have another Paypal acct, for selling, with a bank account attached, but no CC. This bank acct is used ONLY for Paypal and as soon as money hits it, I transfer the balance out electronically. I don't trust Paypal, either.

Coinhusker1 · January 4, 2006 10:01PM

<< I have one Paypal acct with only a CC attached, for buying (no bank acct.) I have another Paypal acct, for selling, with a bank account attached, but no CC. This bank acct is used ONLY for Paypal and as soon as money hits it, I transfer the balance out electronically. I don't trust Paypal, either. >>

Barry, do you have to have separate Ebay accounts for buying and selling to do this, or are you able to use both Paypal accounts for buying/selling with the same Ebay account?

Barry · January 4, 2006 10:35PM

Just one Ebay account.
When buying, just click on the Paypal link in the auction, and it prompts you for your Paypal acct info.
When selling, you need to enter your Paypal account info in the Payment info section when you post the auction.

ttown · January 4, 2006 10:46PM

<< 

<< Now I've started a complaint through my credit card, and I should hear something in another 90 days. Sigh. >>

Your PayPal account will be closed for doing a charge back against PayPal.

Get all your funds out of your account NOW - PayPal will take it. >>

Not true unless your doing this on a regular basis. All paypal will do is tell you they can close your account and send you a nasty letter.

Longacre · January 4, 2006 11:12PM

Does anyone have a link to the Paypal rules of engagement (their refund rules, etc.)? I want to take a read through them.

bushmaster8 · January 5, 2006 12:33AM

Paypal sucks and is never a good idea to place trust in them.

They do the wrong thing way more often than they do the right thing!

If you stick with Paypal long enuff, you will eventually get shafted... it is just a matter of time!

jonathanb · January 5, 2006 12:41AM

From Paypal's Buyer Complaint Policy:

"
Relationship between Buyer Complaint Policy and Credit Card Chargeback Rights. If you used a credit card to fund a purchase of goods or services through PayPal, you may have chargeback rights granted by your credit card issuer. Credit card chargebacks, if they apply, can be filed more than 45 days after the transaction, are not limited to funds in the seller’s balance, and cover cases where the goods are not as described by the seller as well as cases of non-delivery.

You can choose to pursue the Buyer Complaint process or your credit card chargeback rights; however, you cannot pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you initiate a Buyer Complaint claim and, while the claim is pending, you file a credit card chargeback, PayPal will cancel your Buyer Complaint claim, and you will have to rely solely on your credit card chargeback rights.

If you cancel your Buyer Complaint claim or it is denied or results in no refund, you may still be able to pursue credit card chargeback rights. In many cases, your credit card company will allow you to file a chargeback for 90 days or more after the date of the payment. If PayPal resolves a Buyer Complaint claim in the buyer’s favor but the buyer does not receive a full recovery of their payment, and if the time for processing of the claim results in the buyer’s loss of credit card chargeback rights, then PayPal will provide a full recovery to the buyer.

PayPal encourages all buyer purchase disputes that cannot be resolved directly with the seller to be filed and resolved through the Resolution Center. PayPal reserves the right to terminate or limit account access privileges of buyers who misuse the credit card chargeback process to get their money back and keep the goods, or to recover payment twice for the same dispute, or who file three or more chargebacks per 12-month period that are ruled invalid by the applicable card association or card issuer. PayPal reserves the right to contest credit card chargebacks, in accordance with the rules of the applicable card issuer or card association.

If a chargeback claim is initiated by a buyer, whether as a result of a dispute with the seller or for any other reason, the buyer and seller agree to provide to any requesting party on a timely basis any and all necessary documentation to resolve the dispute. PayPal DOES NOT act as the agent of either party in any transaction or resulting dispute, though PayPal does decide the outcome of disputes initiated through the Buyer Complaint process.
"

Additionally, in my case I have an email from them that says, "You should contact your credit card company". And this is my first dispute ever (5+ years?). Yes, they can do anything they want at any time they want, but at least they SAY that I'm ok with this course of action.

(FWIW, I hadn't seen that policy document before today. It helps to know the magic word "chargeback". Thanks again to the folks on this board!)

jonathan

SUPERCARCOINS · January 5, 2006 1:31PM

no ididnt know this, and neither does my local post office, maybe you should call them and inform them of your expertise in this area. as they recently made good on a insurance claim i had with a lost coin that was insured.

I'm with Lucy ; there is so much false stuff stated here. they insure the package and it's contents...

SUPERCARCOINS · January 5, 2006 1:36PM

are you aware that the post office can't track " insured " mail ?? If it comes up lost they have no idea where it went . >>

"Not true at all; that number on the edge of your insurance receipt is an internal tracking number and in fact provides more info than delivery confirmation. "

Badger ;

as a postal employee , i think I'm qualified to tell you your incorrect .

I repeat myself to any moron who thinks diffrent :

Insured mail cannot be tracked by the Post Office if it is lost !!

BobaFett72 · January 5, 2006 2:11PM

Enjoy...this sums up how I think of PayPal

Uninsured items are shipped at buyer’s risk.

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