Is is true that "Connoisseur Collections" only account for 5% of all collections out there

Longacre · January 4, 2006 3:05AM

I was reading some articles on a dealer's website, and he had an article on important things to consider when collecting. Here is a copy of the paragraph on "Connoisseur Collections". Do you agree that only around 5% of all collections rise to this level? Do you agree that people are only born connoisseurs, and if they are not, then they should seek the counsel of a dealer who is a connoisseur?

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I define connoissuership as the ability to discern true quality in a specific field. In numismatics, the connoisseur is able to determine which coins have the most aesthetic eye appeal and which, literally, stand apart from the "typical" piece. A numismatic connoisseur, for instance, is able to appreciate a truly original gold coin with rich, "crusty" coloration. He is able to innately sense that 150 year old coins do not have to be big and bright in order to be desirable. Connoisseurship is a natural ability. You either are able to naturally determine the "best" or you are not. If you are not a born connoisseur (and very few people are) then you should find a dealer who has this ability to assist you with your purchases. I would estimate that less than 5% of all coin collections are "connoisseur quality" and those that are typically the ones that show the greatest financial appreciation over the course of time.

Higashiyama · January 4, 2006 3:36AM

I don't know about the 5 % number, but I would take issue with the entire concept, in particular, the (absurd!) notion that "connoissuership is a natural ability."

I would say just the opposite -- connoisseurship of coins (or wine, or fine art) is very much learned, very much subject to social norms, and is subject to peer pressure and externally defined standards which can and are learned.

coinlieutenant · January 4, 2006 3:53AM

I dont think it is instinctive, I think it is learned...and I do think that around 5% is probably right.

worldcoinguy · January 4, 2006 3:56AM

I agree with Higashiyama - you develop an 'eye' for quality over time. I would argue, however, that it is not a black and white issue. There are a number of levels of grey out there when it comes to people who just "get it". 5% might be in a class by themselves, but they might want to keep an eye on the next 25%.

LucyBop · January 4, 2006 3:57AM

I am not familiar with this word connoisseur, is it French? English is hard for me as it isn't my native tongue.. with that said let me share a story..

When i was a young little girl I got my father to take me to a coin store on Central AVE in Albuquerque... I wanted a Winged Liberty...
I remember that day well, I was a little kitty in a dress looking at the shiny coins with my big eyeballs. I found a 38d Winged Liberty that was the shinnest thing
I had ever seen. I asked my father in Spanish to buy me this coin and I told him it was very pretty...

this coin was in a stapled plastic holder that most raw dealers use... I kept it that way for years in my dresser..

fastforward some 30 years later, I take this coin which never toned and submitted it to PCGs...
it came back a MS67FB coin.....

tradedollarnut · January 4, 2006 4:07AM

5% might be in a class by themselves, but they might want to keep an eye on the next 25%.

I would agree with this. 5% are naturals, another 25% pick it up over time.

TheRaven · January 4, 2006 4:09AM

You are not born one, you become one.....

Connoisseur is a person that enjoys the finer things and points to a subject..... Such as fine wine or something.....

What I care about is do I like the look of the coin, if it is yes then I will purchase, if no then I will no.....

topstuf · January 4, 2006 4:12AM

I dismiss "naturals." Some are just more observant than others. It's all learned. I guess a "natural" talent for observation and retention of experience would be valid.

And then there's "motivation."

Aw heck, it's just natural.

"Nature" itself only wants 5% or less to advance.

LucyBop · January 4, 2006 4:14AM

<< <i>You are not born one, you become one.....

Connoisseur is a person that enjoys the finer things and points to a subject..... Such as fine wine or something.....

What I care about is do I like the look of the coin, if it is yes then I will purchase, if no then I will no..... >>

Just give me some good ol Mexican Tequila like El Jimador....

who needs the fine wine!

RYK · January 4, 2006 4:29AM

I agree with this statement, especially as it applies to gold coin collectors. I know that I am not in the 5% and get help from people who build "5% collections" whenever I can. Oh, I am a disciple of the author of that passage.

I hope to join TDN's 25% over time.

keets · January 4, 2006 4:31AM

a forum friend related to me a story about his daughter which is similar to the HepKitty's-----he buys collections and has let his daughter look at the Morgans and pick out what she thinks are the best coins. they inevitably grade the highest when submitted.

while the pasted comment is quite obviously biased hype, i don't think it's totally inaccurate. i also don't think that the best collectors/graders are "made" by being involved in the hobby. they are born with their skills and involvement/experience just helps them to develop. it's interesting to note that the word "connoisseur" is linked back to cognition which has more to do with instinctive ability than learned ability. to that end, we can all certainly learn to appreciate good wine as some have said, but the true connoisseurs seem to have been born with something the rest of us can't learn, no matter how hard we try.

with coins, pick out the top grader of your choice. no matter how hard you try to "learn" coin grading and the ability to choose the best coins, he'll beat you every time. a tough and bitter pill for some to swallow judging by the replies thus far, but true just the same.

Longacre · January 4, 2006 4:56AM

<< <i> to that end, we can all certainly learn to appreciate good wine as some have said, but the true connoisseurs seem to have been born with something the rest of us can't learn, no matter how hard we try. >>

True story-- I was at dinner about 12 years ago with a partner at the big accounting firm that I used to work for. He was a "connoisseur of the grape", or so he said. He ordered a really expensive bottle of wine and when the bottle came to the table, he really didn't look at it. As he tasted it, he authoritatively informed all of us peons (staff people) at the table about the wonderful black currant notes, underlying with a hint tobacco on the long finish, etc., etc., etc. About five minutes later the host came by and profusely apologized because they inadvertantly gave us the $10 house wine instead of the one that he ordered. Of course I couldn't laugh, because I would have been canned right at the table.

291fifth · January 4, 2006 5:34AM

I associate the numismatic use of the term "connoisseurs" to be little more than marketing hype that is designed to stroke the egos of a dealer's clients.

RYK · January 4, 2006 5:42AM

I associate the numismatic use of the term "connoisseurs" to be little more than marketing hype that is designed to stroke the egos of a dealer's clients.

I am not sure where the "hype" is the statement. I do know two individuals that are considered to be "connoisseurs" by the author, and one is another dealer and the other is not a client.

michael · January 4, 2006 5:42AM

I was reading some articles on a dealer's website, and he had an article on important things to consider when collecting. Here is a copy of the paragraph on "Connoisseur Collections". Do you agree that only around 5% of all collections rise to this level?

for the most part YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you agree that people are only born connoisseurs, and if they are not, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

they are not born this way they need to collect and really love the hobby buy lots of crap make many mistakes and then one day they see the light and then become true connoisseurs

then they should seek the counsel of a dealer who is a connoisseur? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! you got to do it all by yourself the true 5% or less as per the above did it themselves if you seek the counsel of others to tell you waht is a monster killer eye appeal coin then you will not get these coins lol i suppose there are some dealers that can assist you with maybe he;ling you hunt but for the most part you got to do it all yourself and mostly be the expert above all others that is why in this or any coin market in the future you got to specialize specialize specialize like pittman bass the chapman brothers ford etc.

********************************************** or get some nutty crazy one of a kind collectyor who has sp[ecialized for decades in the coins that you want to collect that is NOT A COIN SELLER OR COIN BUYER to help you then you can do this and i only know of one person like this LOL++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Barry · January 4, 2006 7:03AM

About five minutes later the host came by and profusely apologized because they inadvertantly gave us the $10 house wine instead of the one that he ordered.

A classic story! If you want a similar one, do a Google search on Two Buck Chuck. It's a wine sold at Trader Joes, goes for about $2/bottle and won a blind taste test by some wine snobs (or connoisseurs?)

PerryHall · January 4, 2006 7:44AM

Riddle: What's the difference between a wino and a connoisseur?

Answer: About $10 per bottle.

MikeInFL · January 4, 2006 8:06AM

I'm not sure I could define a "connoisseur collection" with any precision, but I agree with the general assessment of 5%, and my sense is probably less rather than more than that figure.

However, I think a true connoisseur (whatever that is) is a combination of experience and god-given talent. Learning from an experienced and trustworthy dealer could absolutely help in the process. Learning from other connoisseurs can also help greatly.

Ultimately, people collect whatever they want to collect. Not many aspire to "connoisseurship", and many of those who do have not the means to do so.

Take care...Mike

LindeDad · January 4, 2006 8:28AM

Two thoughts on the subjuect.

Is that 5% rule true for the dealers too?

Some natural ability as Lucy Bop demonstrated; and a whole lot of gained knowledge in your chosen area is what I think.

Crazy4Coins · January 4, 2006 8:43AM

Do you agree that people are only born connoisseurs, and if they are not, then they should seek the counsel of a dealer who is a connoisseur?

So, lets say you're not in the 5%-25% range and look for a dealer.....what are the odds/percentages that he/she, the dealer, is a true connoisseur and not a wannabe connoisseur...don't most dealers learn from their experiences.

michael · January 4, 2006 8:47AM

don't most dealers learn from their experiences

yes for themselves and their own interests not for YOURS THOUGH

JRocco · January 4, 2006 8:50AM

In so so many areas of life, some things come easy to some yet hard to others---and then impossible for others. Having "an eye" for spotting a PQ coin is just one example. To some this will just happen naturally, to some others, they can teach themselves to reach this point---and then there are some ( We know who they are without having to say

) who will never acquire that ability.
Take this one step further. Most think that you could put together a great set of coins by just being able (financially) to write a big check and buy the BETTER graded coins.....well I have seen nicer sets of F-VF matched Morgan's than that eclectic mix of BU and slider AU's that just don't look right.
5 % of the cream rising to the top is probably about right also.

RYK · January 4, 2006 9:15AM

Is that 5% rule true for the dealers too?

Yes, 95% are no better than you in your area of interest, and most are worse. It is important to find the 1 in 20. When you find them, you will know it.

100proof1957 · January 4, 2006 11:03AM

What did Rodney say in Caddyshack ? " Ill buy this crummy snobatorium"

that whole conno whatever concept is crap,sounds like an Ellesmere ™ article !

Who the hech was Col Greene, a bitter old man who spent his family fortune on coins. a conno whatever ? i think not !

Conisuer is just another term for i have more money than you but i still have no clue !

Savvy · January 4, 2006 11:17AM

I have a brother who is the ultimate connoisseur--wines and what have you. He always thought that no one could make a martini like I could. Then one day he found out that I don't own any vermouth. At that point I fell from being a connoisseur to being a complete slob.

Is is true that "Connoisseur Collections" only account for 5% of all collections out there

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Is is true that &quot;Connoisseur Collections&quot; only account for 5% of all collections out there

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Is is true that "Connoisseur Collections" only account for 5% of all collections out there