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MS63+ Money for an AU58 CBH (Teletrade)

cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have paid over MS60 money for an AU58 CBH, but never over MS63 moneyimage

What is going on here.................any thoughts


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    MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,192 ✭✭✭✭
    Seems strong money, but who knows. There are two of those coins -- this one and her "sister" -- on TT tonight, if memory serves me.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
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    fcfc Posts: 12,805 ✭✭✭
    the coin seems rather pleasing to me. it bet it would look
    very sweet in an album. but who cracks out 2500 dollar coins
    for an album? ;-)

    so my opinion is, that price does not shock me at all and i know
    very little (nothing) about the series.
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's the O-107a 111 edge. If it's not the owners reserve, it might be bid this high for the edge variety.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    CameonutCameonut Posts: 7,438 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Probably only the sellers reserve kicking in. Bids will rise through the auction - giving the appearance of active bidding.

    Totally bogus way to run an auction IMO.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    I also was going to place a last minute bid on this coin. I cannot imagine what is causing such a high price on it. It certainly looks to have wear in a number of spots, so it is graded properly. The O-107 marriage is R3.image
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks like the 1809 O-107a. Beautiful coin, great details, just like Mr. Overton wrote it up. I don't know what its rarity rating is according to the BHNC, but Overton called it R-4. I don't think one could ask for a better specimen.

    While I can't speak for individual bidders, you will find that choice AU Bust Halves, properly graded and holdered by PCGS, tend to sell for much more than the Greysheet would indicate. I believe a handful of CU Message Board members have standing offers for AU-58 PCGS bust halves that are significantly higher than the Greysheet would indicate.
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    Most likely this will be a "no sale." The owner is trolling for a sucker bid. The coin itself doesn't look all that nice, either. Where's the luster? I'd guess that this coin was cleaned and put in a Wayte Raymond album long ago.

    As for that being 63 money, try and buy a properly graded 1809 in 63 for anywhere close to that!
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    cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
    stman.........................don't I feel silly.

    Upon closer look, and looking at my Overton Book, again........... it appears it is the O107a.
    I looked at the pics of the 107, and blew right past the 107aimageimage
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    TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭✭
    Ya only need 2 people that really want it.....

    Looks like a nice coin.....
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭


    << <i>It's the O-107a 111 edge. If it's not the owners reserve, it might be bid this high for the edge variety. >>

    I knew this was the a-variety R4 when I earlier stated the marriage is R3. Those collecting by die marriage normally do not pay much extra for a rarer die state. Since this coin is encapsulated and not listed as a special edge variety, it certainly does not warrant a premium for edge.

    I believe Teletrade confused the bidders by listing a prices realized for same grade WITH the IIIII edge variety, still too much money.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,374 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What are the odds the "troller" is the house?

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Since this coin is encapsulated and not listed as a special edge variety, it certainly does not warrant a premium for edge. >>



    Like I mentioned, It could be the owners reserve. Does PCGS put the edge variety on the holder? Either way, perhaps someone wants it even if it doesn't state it on the holder. Are you saying just because it doesn't say so on the holder, it warrants no premium? Just curious is all. image

    I don't like the fingerprint on the coin anyway, besides not being close to original looking.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I believe Teletrade confused the bidders by listing a prices realized for same grade WITH the IIIII edge variety >>



    For accuracy, the prices realized you speak of was for the XXX variety.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You are paying for the edge...

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    cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is a pic of my 1809 PCGS AU58...............while not the III variety, still much more luster than the TT coin shows IMHO




    image
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    stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>You are paying for the edge... >>



    No I'm not.image
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
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    tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
    I guess my bid of $150 isn't going to stand... image
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    coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Niether is my bid of 1000$...image
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    coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,329 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I graded the coin 55...not enough luster.
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    JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Niether is my bid of 1000$...image >>



    I would love that coin for a grand
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    Hard to believe someone paid $2700 for this coin.image
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,570 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hard to believe someone paid $2700 for this coin.image >>



    Of course, it is also hard to believe that someone paid over 5000 for it last year at FUN simply because it was then in a NGC 62 holder.

    Heritage FUN 2005 sale
    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
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    CladiatorCladiator Posts: 18,353 ✭✭✭✭✭
    good catch Jim.
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    JZraritiesJZrarities Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    Not the same coin as the NGC 62

    I was also watching that coin and was shocked at the bid...
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    cmanbbcmanbb Posts: 1,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree, not the same coin as the Heritage sale (NGC MS62)
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    mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Hard to believe someone paid $2700 for this coin.image >>



    Of course, it is also hard to believe that someone paid over 5000 for it last year at FUN simply because it was then in a NGC 62 holder.

    Heritage FUN 2005 sale >>

    You are mistaken. The two coins are not the same. They are, indeed, the same marriage, and late die state. The MS62 coin looks MS62 to me. I think this HRC coin HRC sold at a reasonable price, considering its place in the condition census, and considering those serious enough to bid up this coin have lots of money.

    This Teletrade AU58 coin I still think is about a $1200 coin. I need the O-107 marriage so I was about to bid $1050 plus the 12% as my max.

    Serious CBH collectors generally pay only a small premium for die states that are rarer than the marriage overall. In general, suppose we had a prime die state R3 worth $200, the a-die state R4 might be worth $220, and the b-die state R5 might be worth $240. Often times the rarer die state does not bring a premium at all. Be carefull of dealers listing rarity numbers for a given die state, when the overall marriage is lower rarity.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
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    It is absolutely not the same coin. A friend bought the coin at FUN and many marveled at the price he was willing to pay. I had figured it pre-sale for ~$1700, but decided against it because it was rather obviously cleaned and otherwise "enhanced". Also, it was nowhere near the terminal die state.

    As for premiums paid for rare or unlisted die states, I agree with Mozin that it is a hazardous practice, but the record clearly shows that highly knowledgeable collectors often pay enormous premiums for die states. Witness lot 57 in Downey's 2005 ANA sale, a scuzzy 26 110 with obverse die cracks. It sold for $1452 against a high bid of $3357. This was a special case because it disproved a sequence in Overton, but it was nevertheless a $100 coin without the cracks. This sale was rife with rare or unlisted die states that brought substantial premiums.

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