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A lot of people would like to see the cent go away. Why?
MajorDuty
Posts: 1,998
I'm not interested in hearing about how much money it takes to make the cent; that doesn't really affect you. I'm more interested in hearing how those who want the cent to go away expect change to be handled. I assume you all are all right with paying the extra 2, 3, or 4 pennies, because retailers certainly will not be rounding down their prices, yet rounding them up. So what is it, really, that offends some of you so much about the Lincoln cent?
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<< <i>I'm not interested in hearing about how much money it takes to make the cent; that doesn't really affect you. I'm more interested in hearing how those who want the cent to go away expect change to be handled. I assume you all are all right with paying the extra 2, 3, or 4 pennies, because retailers certainly will not be rounding down their prices, yet rounding them up. So what is it, really, that offends some of you so much about the Lincoln cent? >>
The dollar has become devalued through inflation enough that the cent is virtually worthless. And it is possible to set up point of sale systems to round to the nearest 5 cents. It would even out in the end; though some retailers could manipulate their prices such that after tax an item's price would end in 3 or 8, by adding enough items together in one purchase that goes away.
Note that the half cent was already a nuisance in 1857, though that amount of money in 1857 is worth maybe a dime today, probably somewhat more.
<< <i>I'm more interested in hearing how those who want the cent to go away expect change to be handled. I assume you all are all right with paying the extra 2, 3, or 4 pennies, because retailers certainly will not be rounding down their prices, yet rounding them up. >>
Most, if not all, proposed cent elimination plans call for rounding to the nearest nickel, not only up. Do the math and you'll see that this is a net zero in terms of money spent.
Don't believe businesses will do this? Why not? We already do cent-rounding for sales tax purposes, and those are always rounded to the nearest cent. Why not always round up? No one does this, and I'm not even sure there is legislation prohibiting it.
You didn't want to hear about the costs of cent production, but that's really the bottom line for me. Every cent the government produces is money lost to the US taxpayer. Yes, compared to the vast array of government waste it's a drop in the bucket, but those are issues for another day, another forum.
2. worthless. i'd give up 2c on every purchase (in tax) if we could get rid of them. they just accumulate
3. rounding would in the long term eliminate any gain/loss
Say 2/3 of those prices would get rounded up without the cent. Maybe 1/3 would get rounded down. Check my math, but I think that means the rounded down 1/3 would cancel out 1/3rd of the rounded up. That leaves you paying $.02 or $.01 more on 1/3rd of those 300 purchases a year.
$.01 x 100 = $1.
A buck over the course of a year. Maybe a buck and a half.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>Even if it's not a net zero like flamino says, retailers who round down would put a dent in those who round up. How many $x.98 or $x.99 purchases do you make a day? Three hundred a year would be about one a day. >>
Keep in mind that only the total is rounded, not each individual item. Take your $x.98 item. What if you buy two of them? Now you'd pay $y.96 for the pair, and your total would get rounded down by a cent.
This doesn't even take into consideration the randomizing factor of sales tax.
It's used just as much as any other coin in the U.S. if not more. I don't understand the concept of getting rid of something we use. People seem to think they are good for one
use only. If they are filling up your Mason Jars then it is YOU who put them there. Nothing is stopping anyone from carrying them around & using them over again.
My point is if people really don't like the cent then why sell something for $ X.99 or $ X.98. Most of you have sold something..ebay or whatever, If you sold something for $12.09 did they pay on the dot or did you just say oh dont worry about the nine cents, its only a nickel and 4 cents. And if I bought something for $12.96 on ebay and you told me that you wanted 13, I'd tell you to shove it. The whole "it costs 2 cents for every cent made" is kind of messed up, I agree. But then why not make them out of a cheaper metal. If cents are such trash that they just get flicked or thrown in the street, then what's making them out of something cheaper going to hurt even if it does wear faster or gets dinged up easier, remember, it's trash
I realize getting rid of the other denominations isn't plausible (taxes and what not) but if you think about it a nickel is only five cents... if you want to get rid of the cent, then what's five cents?
JMO
<< <i>I realize getting rid of the other denominations isn't plausible (taxes and what not) but if you think about it a nickel is only five cents... if you want to get rid of the cent, then what's five cents? >>
Well, with that logic, why didn't they also get rid of the cent and perhaps even the trime when they deep-sixed the half cent in 1857?
it saps about two cents out of the economy. It takes this toll in the worst possible way
because it's a human toll. It robs a couple cents worth of our lives and time. It also
costs us real money to mint these coins so we pay even before we have to handle the
toxic little slugs.
Apparently the zinc mining industry has purchased the best legislators that money can
buy and make nearly a tenth of a cent on each. It would be much cheaper to just pay
them a dollar for every penny we don't make but the status quo is not to be disturbed.
<< <i>...why not make them out of a cheaper metal. ... if you think about it a nickel is only five cents... if you want to get rid of the cent, then what's five cents? JMO >>
There is no cheaper metal. Copper, aluminum, zinc are all too expensive. A metalized plastic may work. Like what ho-hos are wrapped in. Do you want plastic coins?
And our unit of exchange is the dollar, not the cent. A nickel is 1/20th of a dollar.
--Severian the Lame
Eliminating the cent would save lots and lots of little bits of TIME. There would be fewer coins needed to make change and therefore the average time for a cash transaction woud be reduced slightly. And many people, including me, go out of their way to not get cents back in change. So we hold up the line looking for the cents needed to hand the teller so that we get change rounded to the nearest nickel. And then there is the time wasted while the teller can't understand what you are doing handing them coins with the bills to pay for something and messing the whole transaction up. This, multiplied times billions of cash transactions would add up to a lot of time.
Speaking of time, by the time America is ready to say bye bye to the cent, they may as well do the nickel at the same time. What can you buy for a nickel these days? It won't be long before the nickel is as worthless as a cent is today. I say phase both the nickel and cent out in 2010 - just after the 100 year Lincoln cent anniversary. Before then, the mint should issue dollar and five dollar coins and do what ever it takes to make them accepted (e.g. encourage updates to vending machines, parking meters, etc. to use the new coins).
For better or for worse - it has to happen eventually. When I was in Italy in 1983, the Lyra (sp ??) was worth about 1/1200 of a US doller. I don't recall seeing any 1 Lyra coins in circulation. I think we need to accept the idea and encourage the government to do the deed and forget about the few that are opposed to the idea for the better good. Eliminating the dollar bill at the same time would also force a faster transition to use the new coinage -- so they may as well do that at the same time, too.
KR
It makes no "sense" to be conducting commerce at the percent, 1/100th, of a dollar resolution. Rounding to the dime should br the rule, not to the penny. Eliminate the cent, the nickel, and the quarter. Shrink the 50c to a workable size and make usable $1, $5 and $10 coins. (...and cease printing corresponding notes to force people to use the more durable coins.) Inflation dictates this. If we use the argument that eliminated the half cent in 1857, keeping the dime around today is even a stretch. There is no justification for the cent and the 2nd decimal place today. All it does is keep jars out of the landfill.
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According to the above CPI inflation calculator. What a cent in 1913 would buy would now takes 19 cents to buy. Looks like we could eliminate the nickel and possibly the dime and not be any worse off than in 1913.
Absolutely not, but that's where we are headed isn't it?
With the comment posted below it wont be to long before everything is on plastic.
If you get rid of the cent, you just as well get rid of the nickel, then what next?
<< by the time America is ready to say bye bye to the cent, they may as well do the nickel at the same time. What can you buy for a nickel these days? It won't be long before the nickel is as worthless as a cent is today. >>
Exactly!
If your going to start geting rid of certain denominations, then lets just skip all of the trouble of going through each denomination and start using plastic now.
Do I like the idea of plastic?
Does using plastic make "cents"? yes
<< <i>My point is if people really don't like the cent then why sell something for $ X.99 or $ X.98. Most of you have sold something..ebay or whatever, If you sold something for $12.09 did they pay on the dot or did you just say oh dont worry about the nine cents, its only a nickel and 4 cents. And if I bought something for $12.96 on ebay and you told me that you wanted 13, I'd tell you to shove it. The whole "it costs 2 cents for every cent made" is kind of messed up, I agree. But then why not make them out of a cheaper metal. If cents are such trash that they just get flicked or thrown in the street, then what's making them out of something cheaper going to hurt even if it does wear faster or gets dinged up easier, remember, it's trash >>
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what we're talking about. It's not the denomination of one cent that is being eliminated, only the physical manifestation of that denomination: the one cent coin, or "penny". A PayPal transaction for $12.09 would still be rendered as $12.09. Only cash payments would be affected by cent elimination, and even there, only total transactions including sales tax (not individual items -- 99c pricing would be unaffected, although it strikes me as weird that so many on this group are direly concerned about this).
Tom
They might still exist in theory, just as the cent could exist. But there just isn't a coin minted to represent them anymore.
Similarly, there are 2,144 Brazillian Bolivars to a single US dollar. And there are theoretically 100 centimos to a bolivar. That's 214,400 centimos per dollar! But they don't circulate the centimo coins anymore. In fact, the smallest coin is the 10 bolivares. And the smallest note is the 500 bolivares.
Wikipedia on the Bolivar
--Severian the Lame
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
We might see the end of it in 2009..
<< <i>If we use the argument that eliminated the half cent in 1857,.... >>
What was that argument used to eliminate the half-cent, by the way?
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<< <i>we have to handle the toxic little slugs. >>
LOL!
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Many interesting opinions; some I never considered. I find it ironic, though, (some) coin collectors arguing for the cents demise. I guess if 'they' ever do, do away with the cent, its popularity and value with collectors will sky rocket.
I pick them up off the ground all the time.
When I get a big fist full, I go into a real busy store and stand in line with a dozen people behind me and when it's my turn I pay for my purchase with pennies, still grungy from the ground.
I count them out real slow and careful. Sometimes twice.
Then I tell the clerk they had better count them too, just to verify my count.
How else can an old man have so much fun so cheap?
Ray
If we eliminate the penny then maybe I will find more silver with my metal detector!