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Palladium or not? Do you own it....
MS70ORBUST
Posts: 395
Anyone buying palladium? If so, what is the best site to purchase? Thanks
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rare coins, yes.
Don't own any. Don't plan to. Would play as a stock. Liquidity limited. Local coin shops would say "you got WHAT?"
Too esoteric for a precious metal. At least at this point. Not saying it is bad....just hard to buy and sell.
Yeah, I know, I'm not a biologist; I don't know alla these things.
<< <i>The new Canadian palladium coin should make the metal a bit more market acceptable. Before that, you had to buy little bars or weird things. I'd be a lot more excited if I knew what palladium was-- is it a mixture of platinum and silver?
Yeah, I know, I'm not a biologist; I don't know alla these things. >>
This is greek to me but here you go;
It would not normally be necessary to make a sample of palladium in the laboratory as the metal is available commercially. The industrial extraction of palladium is complex as the metal occurs in ores mixed with other metals such as platinum. Sometimes extraction of the precious metals such as platinum and palladium is the main focus of a partiular industrial operation while in other cases it is a byproduct. The extraction is complex and only worthwhile since palladium is the basis of important catalysts in industry.
Preliminary treatment of the ore or base metal byproduct with aqua regia (a mixture of hydrochloric acid, HCl, and nitric acid, HNO3) gives a solution containing complexes of gold and platinum as well as H2PdCl4. The gold is removed from this solution as a precipitate by treatment with iron chloride (FeCl2). The platinum is precipitated out as (NH4)2PtCl6 on treatment with NH4Cl, leaving H2PdCl4 in solution. The palladium is precipitated out by treatment with ammonium hydroxide, NH4OH, and HCl as the complex PdCl2(NH3)2. This yields palladium metal by burning.
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
Palladium jewelry demand for 2005 in China is seen just short of 800,000 oz, around one-six of total palladium demand.
However, despite China's appetite for palladium jewelry coming "out of nowhere," prices will be capped due to large stocks.
Spot palladium is currently trading at a 17-month high of $240.50/oz.
Russian stock levels are unknown, even though this might change as Russian miner Norilsk Nickel (GMKN.RS) has said it would reveal stock data at some point before 2006.
One of the main drags on palladium prices are large stockpiles in Switzerland estimated at over 196 metric tons, or 6.3 million ounces, equivalent to almost a year's supply, Virtual Metals said.
Implied stockpiles have now started to fall, the report said, estimating a drop of 21 tons by September 2005 to 175 tons.
"If it were to continue to decline at this rate then it would be exhausted in about seven years, suggesting it could remain a drag on the price for some years," the report said.
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<< <i>The new Canadian palladium coin should make the metal a bit more market acceptable. Before that, you had to buy little bars or weird things. I'd be a lot more excited if I knew what palladium was-- is it a mixture of platinum and silver?
Yeah, I know, I'm not a biologist; I don't know alla these things. >>
Pd is a platinum group element, typically found in the same ores as Pt. The price has been VERY volatile-and is driven by industrial demand and speculation of that demand. It is used as a catalyst for industrial and scientific purposes, including automotive catalytic convertors-and speculation concerning the use of Pd in catalytic convertors drove the cost of Pd over $1000/oz in early 2001, it hit a recent low of $148 in 2003, and has been trending up of late and is currently around $250/oz. Potentially it oculd be used in fuel cells.
A few countries have issued NCLT Pd coins in the past-notably Australia. Not sure if the Canadian maple leaf Pd coins are actually available yet-Canadian Coin News wrote this a month ago "To date, the Mint has only run engineering trials and we are in the process of sourcing the material."
CCN
Don
I used to buy them in the shop and had to turn EVERY one into bullion wholesalers. Nobody from the "public" would ever buy them. In fact, I called my bullion wholesaler to ask if ANYONE was buying from him for the coins. He said he sold all the platinum coins to industrial users (or suppliers)
The spread on silver is bad enough. Platinum and palladium are far worse. GOLD is still the element of choice for hoarders and speculators.
<< <i>Other than gold or silver, there is virtually no demand from "investors" for platinum or palladium coins.
I used to buy them in the shop and had to turn EVERY one into bullion wholesalers. Nobody from the "public" would ever buy them. In fact, I called my bullion wholesaler to ask if ANYONE was buying from him for the coins. He said he sold all the platinum coins to industrial users (or suppliers)
The spread on silver is bad enough. Platinum and palladium are far worse. GOLD is still the element of choice for hoarders and speculators. >>
Some would dissagree with this statement, Linky
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
Much easier to buy and sell. No storage fees and no spread. Bought it at $4.75 sold just over $6. Went over $7. Oh well. Never look a gift horse in the mouth.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Wikipedia is a good resource for questions like that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palladium
Robert A. Heinlein
Palladium is able to perform a lot of the catalysis that is typically done by platinum and rhodium. Palladium, at the moment, is far cheaper than either of those two metals, so the use of Pd in place of Pt or Rh is beginning to rise. Palladium is also kind of neat because of how it soaks up hydrogen gas like a sponge. For some reason, the individual Pd atoms are able to break apart hydrogen molecules into single H atoms. It then holds on to these atoms until you heat the metal up at which point it will release it again as hydrogen gas. A good way to see if the metal you have is palladium is to weight it, then pass some hydrogen gas over it (which you can make by putting an electrical current through salty water), and re-weigh your palladium sample. If it weighs more, then it's pure Pd as it has absorbed some hydrogen.
I myself own a one ounce bar of palladium and just ordered a one ounce palladium Maple Leaf from www.apmex.com
At one point, it was worth more per ounce than platinum, which is why manufacturers started using platinum in catalytic converters instead of palladium. Some people think (myself included) that palladium will come up in price, since now that platinum is so expensive, there might be a move back into palladium for that usage. Also, the Chinese are discovering that palladium looks almost as good as platinum in jewelry.
I own some "mining coins" of palladium, a Russian ballerina, and have a Bermuda coin on the way. Ask around at coin shows and you might find a dealer or two who carries them. They're usually not right out in front, however!
I bought a palladium Maple Leaf just to have one (30k mintage for the first year, 2005)
also, picked up a 1990, 1991 ballerina, which are very pretty coins.... so, there are opportunities to buy,
but you'd better like the design your buying it for.
palladium is the ugly 1/2 sister of platinum.
if i recall, isn't Palladium 100 times rarer than Gold?? noone wants it, though.
buy when noone else is buying....
sell when everyone else is buying ?
(Im not implying anything about metals/coins and investing... Idont want to get into all
that junk again)
<< <i>then pass some hydrogen gas over it (which you can make by putting an electrical current through salty water), >>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you make hydrogen gas (and O2 of course) by passing a current through fresh water? I remember I was going to do an electrolysis experiment in high school using salt water, and the teacher spass'd out, saying that electrolysing salt water would produce chlorine gas. Is that true?
not extracted with platinum. provides similar catalytic functions as platinum (plat column in periodic table) at about 70-90% efficiency. extracted in few places and market was manipulated.... causing 5 fold increase in price around 2000/2001. a gamble at best, many people have harsh feelings towards it after it went from 150 bucks - 1000 bucks - 200 bucks in a period of a couple months
The term "Precious" does not just coincide with the intrinsic (i.e. monetary) value but initially referred to the fact that none of those metals can be used to natuarally create an alloy with iron.
Collecting since the 1980's
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I have some money in a commodities fund of funds. I really don't follow what they trade. I just look at the bottom line.
I would not own ANY bullion.
<< <i> The teacher is pointing out salt (one of them) is Sodium Cloride (NaCl) in solution. Guess he/she's scared of swimming pools too >>
Isn't chlorine gas some extremely nasty stuff? I thought, unlike swimming pools, it was fatal?
Palladium info...
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<< <i>
<< <i> The teacher is pointing out salt (one of them) is Sodium Cloride (NaCl) in solution. Guess he/she's scared of swimming pools too >>
Isn't chlorine gas some extremely nasty stuff? I thought, unlike swimming pools, it was fatal? >>
The germans used chlorine gas in WWI as a weapon.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Palladium was considered a by-product of platinum mining and nickel mining. The extraction processes are complex and expensive. The net result is that a refiner will separate all useful elements from the ore - this yields the best return on investment. Depending on the ore deposit, you get a ratio of platinum, gold, rhodium, palladium, etc. For automotive catalysis, platinum and rhodium have historically been the materials of preference. The ability to deposit these materials into an efficient and durable catalytic coating has been employing many PhD's for years. The goal is to obtain the maximum catalytic performance at minimum overall cost.
There was a period of time where palladium was very inexpensive. It did not have the demand of the other metals and tended to be stockpiled. This led to oversupply and low price. But palladium has catalytic properties as well. This led to development of palladium catalysts that yielded very good catalytic performance at a competitive price. This led to more demand and the price went up.
So you see, (at least for automotive catalysts), there tends to be cycles of product development to optimize the overall performance/cost equation. This tends to be somewhat cyclical as demand for individual metals changes over time. But the cycle is often disturbed by other influences. Usage in jewelry can swing demand away from gold and toward platinum and palladium. Palladium is also used extensively in electronics. Also remember that the largest deposits are in countries like Russia and South Africa - not the most stable countries. This leads to uncertainty in supply which affects prices. Anyway, I have rarely played the metals markets. The more I learn, the more I stay away. I did have some success years ago when palladium catalysts were under development. I bought as many palladium bars and coins as I could find at prices in the $150-$200/troy ounce range. Sold them all a few years later and doubled my money.
The metal itself is not as pretty as gold, platinum, or silver. It tends to be dull grey. In addition it is a hard metal - it is hard to strike into a coin compared to gold and silver. So the coins that are made are in low relief to prolong die life. The result is a low relief coin that is dull grey - not very appealing. But it is a good way to own the metal if you don't have to pay a premium. There is also a book on Platinum and Palladium coins by Margaret Olsen titled "The Platinum & Palladium Buyer's Guide". It is a bit dated now (1997) but is still a helpful reference for the older issues.
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<< <i>
<< <i> The teacher is pointing out salt (one of them) is Sodium Cloride (NaCl) in solution. Guess he/she's scared of swimming pools too >>
Isn't chlorine gas some extremely nasty stuff? I thought, unlike swimming pools, it was fatal? >>
Indeed. In high school, my buddy and I were last in line to get our chemicals for an experiment. Teacher substituted something and instead of oxygen we made chlorine gas. I almost died.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>Indeed. In high school, my buddy and I were last in line to get our chemicals for an experiment. Teacher substituted something and instead of oxygen we made chlorine gas. I almost died. >>
Well I'll assume that's sarcasm. I do apologize for inconveniencing the prestigious chemists on this board with such a mundane question. The very audacity of me to try and learn something...it's inconceivable.
--Severian the Lame