Letter from ANACS

MrEureka · December 11, 2005 4:19AM

Just received a letter from ANACS dated 12/2.

It states that "coins that are currently in ANACS holders will not automatically be crossed over into the new holder". It also states that "ANACS guarantees the grade and authenticity of all problem-free coins in its holder." Does anyone here know with certainty if the guaranty applies to the old-holdered coins?

BlindedByEgo · December 11, 2005 4:25AM

Wow. Looks like a little double-speak on the face of it... Maybe they mean to specify net graded coins as not automatically crossing,

but I sure don't know why they would be less than crystal-clear...

DHeath · December 11, 2005 4:28AM

Clear to me. Open under new management, but we'll still honor the old guaranty. The exclusion for problem coins is a surprise though.

jdimmick · December 11, 2005 4:28AM

I think this was a must if the new ANACS wants to be a top player and have its coins marketably acceptable in the near future compared to PCGS/NGC. This can be a clear and easily recognizable point in time to mark the change in ANACS philosophy for collectors/ and dealers. The improvements and tighter grading at ANACS would be overshadowed if all anyone had to do was simply send in prior graded ANACS coins for re-holdering as then you basically have the same coins into new holders mixed in with the recently tighter/new approach graded coins. This way the coins that were originaly graded to the current standard and are acceptable are crossedover to the new holders, and the old ones stay in thier current old holders indicating they dont meet the new ANACS standard.

fc · December 11, 2005 4:38AM

maybe they admit that even they can make mistakes, and they cannot guarantee every coin will cross.

they will make that judgement on a coin by coin basis.

i like that.

291fifth · December 11, 2005 4:43AM

Most interesting. Think about what may be about to happen.

Russ · December 11, 2005 4:49AM

Sounds like a pretty ballsy move; something that their two major competitors have never done.

Russ, NCNE

wondercoin · December 11, 2005 4:52AM

JUST MY 2 CENTS: It appears the "new" ANACS grading company will only reholder coins from the "old" ANACS company that, on their merits, support the reholder. Hence, the "new" holder may begin trading in line with PCGS and/or NGC pricing almost instantaneously. I have no idea how ANACS plans to compensate collectors who have "old" holders that do not live up to the "new" standard I expect has been employed at ANACS since Miles Standish' arrival. But, consider this:

CURRENT VALUE OF A GENERIC PCGS-MS68 SILVER WASH QUARTER: AROUND $7,000 OR SO.

CURRENT VALUE OF A GENERIC NGC-MS68 SILVER WASH QUARTER: AROUND $2,500 OR SO.

CURRENT VALUE OF A GENERIC ANACS-MS68 SILVER WASHINGTON QUARTER: AROUND $500 OR SO.

My point being, an older ANACS-MS68 at $500 may well be worth $300-$400 as a "new" holder ANACS-MS67 product. There may not be much needed to compensate these coins?

It should all be very interesting how it plays out.

Wondercoin

LeeG · December 11, 2005 4:53AM

Look's like ANACS may be "Moving On Up". I'm seeing some very positive moves on their part the past couple month's. Just a few more areas to tweak and they'll be a Major Player.

MrEureka · December 11, 2005 4:55AM

Sounds like a pretty ballsy move

If the guaranty is retroactive and if the standard isn't going to change, it's beyond "ballsy".

Still waiting for a definitive answer to my initial question...

Russ · December 11, 2005 4:55AM

<< <i>Hence, the "new" holder may begin trading in line with PCGS and/or NGC pricing almost instantaneously. >>

Yeah, right.

Russ, NCNE

MrEureka · December 11, 2005 4:59AM

Yeah, right.

When NGC launched, its coins immediately traded at a premium to PCGS coins.

Russ · December 11, 2005 5:02AM

<< <i>Yeah, right.

When NGC launched, its coins immediately traded at a premium to PCGS coins. >>

Which, of course, is completely different than this situation. NGC didn't have a lengthy history of bringing substantially less money in the marketplace to overcome. ANACS may indeed eventually achieve parity with PCGS, but it sure as hell is not going to happen "instantaneously".

Russ, NCNE

wondercoin · December 11, 2005 5:07AM

If the ANACS new holder coins are strictly graded and in line with PCGS and NGC grading standards, IMHO, the ANACS new holders MAY trade for around "full value". And, of course, I commented that they MAY, not that they WILL. It is also possible they will not - they need to be well received and supported by dealers of course - and who knows the future there.

Wondercoin

P.S. The "instantaneously" comment relates to the current situation that in many coins series (like the one I listed) the range of prices between PCGS and NGC (without suggesting which company is better or worse) is very wide to begin with - especially some 20th century series. IMHO, it is very possible that a new holder ANACS-MS68 Silver quarter could move up to that roughly $2,500 level I listed, if the quality is all there.

wondercoin · December 11, 2005 5:30AM

Craig: Thank you for the offer and, I understand your comment (even though I have no coins to sell to you at this time). Note that I was referring to the most GENERIC MS68. And, I suspect you are not questioning the NGC and ANACS levels I listed? If not, and assuming a PCGS-MS68 generic silver quarter should be listed at $8,000 or even $8,500 - my point is still the same.... it is possible the new ANACS-MS68 quarters MAY achieve a price level of $2,500 or more very quickly AND IF THE COINS HAVE A GOOD CHANCE TO CROSS INTO PCGS HOLDERS PERHAPS EVEN WAY MORE, as folks will be selling the crossed coins at $7,000 or higher potentially. Thoughts?

Wondercoin

Pushkin · December 11, 2005 5:31AM

If James Taylor couldn't bring ICG into the top tier why should anyone expect him to be more successful with ANACS? The new ANACS slabs are excellent (I still think SEGS has the best - slabs don't a top tier make). It takes more than nice slabs to bring a firm into top tier. Is there more to it than Taylor? Just curious.

topstuf · December 11, 2005 5:38AM

"old holdered coin?"

Backa da bus, boy!

Numisadomasochism. Order of the day.

wondercoin · December 11, 2005 5:41AM

"You have a bunch I would love to own even if they are duplicates."

Thanks, but, on the contrary, you have a bunch I would love to own even more - if and when you want to sell, why not invite a handful of serious bidders to your home and cutout the middleman

No need to wait 45 days for a check or even pay a commish to someone else for your great stuff!

Wondercoin

sleeper · December 11, 2005 5:55AM

At the Baltimore Coin show on Friday i submitted 20 old ANACS coins to be reholdered. I was told that some may come back a lower grade and that ANACS would have a financial responsibility if that happens. But i was also told not every coin would cross into the new holder. So im wondering if they will just not cross a downgrade into the new holder rather then pay the difference in prices of the current and new grade on the coin. At least coins that dont cross aren't charged and those that do are only $5 each.

The New ANACS holder is awesome looking. Its got a great TOP label and is thinner and lighter then PC and NG coin slabs. They also have slab boxes that hold 25 coins due to the thinner design. Also the coins can stand up on their own, will be nice for display purposes in cases.

Andrew
Jade Rare Coin

wayneherndon · December 11, 2005 5:57AM

Andy,

ANACS guarantee is on their website here.

WH

VamGuy · December 11, 2005 5:58AM

Sounds to me like they are offering a regrade & reholder service for $5 with the repsonsibility of paying you if your coin doesn't regrade.

Is this fiscally possible???

sleeper · December 11, 2005 6:07AM

thanks Wayne,

That makes more sense reading on their website vs what i was told at the show.

Andrew

lloydmincy · December 11, 2005 6:08AM

We need THREE big wigs. PCGS would love to be the monolpoly and put everyone else in the drink.

Can you imagine the market for ANACS slabbed coins if they DO TAKE OFF??? Everyone and thier mother will be buying ANACS coins for the possible $$$ increase from increased credibility, exposusre, etc.

Don't ever say I didn't tell you so!!!

Myqqy · December 11, 2005 6:26AM

Interesting thread- I like what anacs is doing...........

topstuf · December 11, 2005 6:28AM

That website guarantee has been in effect for years hasn't it?

I just assumed that it meant almost nothing as the wording seems to indicate that if they just want to put it back in their holder, that's what they would do. NOT subject to someone ELSE's opinion.

Now with the new regime and no more net grading and no chickens allowed in the drawing room, a new guarantee would have to include reimbursement if ANOTHER company disagreed.

No?

I can grade your coin with a guarantee that if you don't like it you can send it back and if I still say what I say.......so what?

ONLY a grading service connected to a PRICING schedule and an AUCTION could give an IRONCLAD guarantee. Of course it would also make it necessary to publicize WIDELY any drop in coin prices.

coinlieutenant · December 11, 2005 6:38AM

Regardless of what comes of the guarantee from ANACS, I think it is clear why PCGS has tightened its standards as of late....new competition being lead numismatically by their own old grader (M.S.). You can bet that David Hall knows what this means given the numismatic expertise at ANACS AND the financial backing of Whitman publishing.

I would expect PCGS to counter this move with a move of its own. Dollar to a jelly donut (bear

) that they switch to a 100 point grading system. This will free them from financial liability of coins in their old holders that have expereienced a "perceived" slip in grading tightness as well as bringing new revenue in for regrades to the new standard.

Since 100 point grading system will have no reference, they wont have to pay any guarantee like ANACS will pay...how will you know you got a downgrade or not since the coins are switched from 70 to 100???

The question that I bet David Hall is asking now is: "Are we sure that the PCGS name recognition will carry us through this new period of heavy seas?"

291fifth · December 11, 2005 6:48AM

If ANACS fails to pull this off...

numonebuyer · December 11, 2005 6:52AM

<< <i>It states that "coins that are currently in ANACS holders will not automatically be crossed over into the new holder". It also states that "ANACS guarantees the grade and authenticity of all problem-free coins in its holder." >>

I think that makes a lot of sense. If you want to compete with PCGS and NGC, you have to recognize your problems. An adjustment on non problem-free coins should be expected on reholders.

Barry · December 11, 2005 7:03AM

<< <i>If James Taylor couldn't bring ICG into the top tier why should anyone expect him to be more successful with ANACS? The new ANACS slabs are excellent (I still think SEGS has the best - slabs don't a top tier make). It takes more than nice slabs to bring a firm into top tier. Is there more to it than Taylor? Just curious.

>>

Once a service loses credibility, that's it. Hopefully he'll learn from his mistakes such as 70 fever...

Shamika · December 11, 2005 7:26AM

Anyone have an image of the new ANACS holders?

UncleWiggly · December 11, 2005 7:39AM

They HAVE to do this and let everything fall where it falls. If not, then every single thing they have done to improve will be out the window. If they didn't, all the miss graded stuff would end up right back in the new holders. Good and Bold move.

Jerry

Justhavingfun · December 11, 2005 8:32AM

"Good and bold move"

I agree.

It will be nice to have another alternative to PCGS and the way they're going at it, it looks like ANACS will be it. ICG had their chance and blew it. Now ANACS will have another chance and my money is on them. I think they'll supplant NGC and then go after PCGS.

Pass the popcorn, please

Just Having Fun

leothelyon · December 11, 2005 11:08AM

Excellent PR from the new ANACS will be the main key to it's success! If they can out-do PCGS in this area........they will establish themselves quite well in the coin market!

Leo

RGL · December 11, 2005 11:35AM

Gee, where have we heard this before: "All previous Watergate statements are inoperative."

RpmHunter · December 11, 2005 12:42PM

Very interesting and informative thread. I wonder what their plans are for the million or so coppers that are Anacs holdered out there which aren't covered under their guarantee?

The comments that all coins won't automatically cross to new holders is interesting. That implies they will be regrading every single coin sent in to be reholdered. If that's the case, they had better upgrade as well when it's appropriate.

I know that this summer the turnaround time for an economy order was about 4 months, either the current group of graders will be working some serious overtime or it'll take even longer.

DRUNNER · December 11, 2005 1:17PM

On the same "buy the coin . . . not the holder" idea, (and I've posted this before) . . .

I've never had a problem with ANACS coins in the past. I just buy the ones I like. My last Collector's Club four-bee (well, back when we HAD Collector's Club 4-Submissions for free) included 3 ANACS Lincolns I cracked to submit . . .

1914-D ANACS VF35 to PCGS XF40
1922 No D STR REV ANACS VF35 to PCGS XF40
1909-S VDB ANACS 64 RD to PCGS 64 RD

It's always been a matter of looking at the coin. I think it always will be. Competition drives everyone to a higher standard in every venture, so I hope the collector will benefit in the long run.

Drunner

MrEureka · December 17, 2005 5:44AM

ttt

Smittys · December 17, 2005 6:24AM

Guess I should have waited to get my coins graded. (graded this week)
Since my newly graded coins under new ownership may not cross..

mozin · December 17, 2005 9:06AM

There is no way the new ANACS will reholder into the new style holder for $5. If someone can assure me they will, meaning they will examine each coin to determine whether or not it meets the new tougher grading standards, I have a couple hundred ANACS coins ready to submit.

There is no question most of my ANACS coins are overgraded by many points, when compared with PCGS standards. If I am reimbursed under the ANACS grade guarantee, I can make a bundle off the new ANACS.

Letter from ANACS

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