this dealer really killed me !!!

JJM · December 10, 2005 8:52AM

I tried to see if I could move some coins,.....I tried to sell my partial date set of braided hair cents,....8 of them, all VG and a couple of F's (NOTHING SLABBED, JUST MY GRADES)....he pulled out 3 and said these MIGHT be VG's, but the rest we hardly G's........pretty insulting I tought, as was the offer...I am not a professional , but I know a VG and F coins when I have em..........Do they all think every collector is stupid ?????

BlindedByEgo · December 10, 2005 8:53AM

Try the BST forum... Do you have pics?

Bunker · December 10, 2005 8:58AM

I hope you kept them and like BlindedByEgo mentioned take pics and list them on the BST

JJM · December 10, 2005 8:59AM

no, I dont have them imaged, just thought I would vent.........he did give me a fair price for some bulk Morgans and Peaces though....of course EVERY ONE I had, had been cleaned,,LOL,...bla bla,.........like nothing raw in his case ever was !!!!! .....just kills me.....

JJM · December 10, 2005 8:59AM

oh , yeah , I kept em...i may be dumb , but im not stupid.....!!!!

WTCG · December 10, 2005 9:00AM

JJM,

Grading is subjective. What is a VG or F to you may not be according to somebody else and vice versa. Get a few more opinions and draw your conclusions about the grades of your coins then.

Russ · December 10, 2005 9:01AM

Is the dealer a member of EAC?

Russ, NCNE

DennisH · December 10, 2005 9:02AM

Grading is subjective, but it's also true that raw coin grades tend to differ according to whether one is the buyer or one is the seller.

JRocco · December 10, 2005 11:03AM

If someone (especially a dealer) calls a VG coin "hardly a G", then one of the two involved are wrong. Nothing subjective there. Period. Now if one calls a coin a Proof 67 vs a Proof 66.. well there is room for subjectivity. VG to hardly a G...NO

JJM · December 11, 2005 4:42AM

ok, well maybe I am wrong,...is this coin "barely a G" ?

Russ · December 11, 2005 4:45AM

<< <i>ok, well maybe I am wrong,...is this coin "barely a G" ? >>

Detail certainly looks better than that, but the coin also looks corroded.

Russ, NCNE

fc · December 11, 2005 4:49AM

jjm,

excellent detail on that coin.

russ might be right though about something strange going on.
it has a strange texture to it. more opinions will be needed but
something tells me Russ is right.

morgannut2 · December 11, 2005 5:05AM

IS THIS COIN BARELY A G??>> The dealer and you are using different grading scales IMHO. The details of your coin you show are clearly VG or Fine. But raw copper and even PCGS graded copper is also graded both by Early Amer. Copper (EAC) standards which take corrosion, porosity etc into account. The greenish scale and porosity lowers you picture to a Good based on EAC stands IMHO. If you think that this is just dealers ripping people you are wrong---For example David Bowers frequently gives both a PCGS grade and the lower EAC grade in his ANR Auction catelogs--and it would be to ANR's benefit NOT to give the lower EAC grade since they get a sale % of the auction price. The question really is did he make a realistic offer considering he has to subtract for overhead, advertising, interest on the loan--and "god-forbid" a profit to keep in business.
If he made a good offer for your cleaned silver, why was the copper offer too low (or was it?)

morgannut2 · December 11, 2005 5:08AM

To answer you--No you're not stupid, you just aren't aware there is two scales appied to early copper that is not appied to other early coins---

JJM · December 11, 2005 5:21AM

thx for all the imput, its all well taken,......my collection is 95% silver, and most of my grades are agreed with for trades and sales....I'll just stick my crap cents back into the collection and stick with what Im more confortable with.........I appreciate the comments....thx

Bunker · December 11, 2005 5:38AM

Did you happen to look in his case and compare grades of the coins you were selling vs the coins he was selling? Might be interesting to see if he calls similiar coins that he is selling "Barely Good" with the same detail your coin has.

JJM · December 11, 2005 5:39AM

he didnt have any copper,...just silver and a little gold,....like I said, he agreed with my silver grades for the vg and F Morgans I moved, and they seemed to be inline with what he had in his case........

edit for spelling

TwoSides2aCoin · December 11, 2005 5:41AM

It is not abnormal to feel insulted at the dealer. It is often quite the same at the car dealer.
He needs to make a profit, too. I don't believe he thought you were stupid, I think he tried to leverage his purchase by downgrading a few of your coins by pointing out the few that MIGHT be G instead of VG.

The coin posted almost certainly was in the dirt at one time... and appears to have been washed if anything in water as it appears from the high points being reddish brown and the darkness in the field (IMO) There are signs of corrosion. If not cleaned in water or soaked in oil.... then possibly rubbed which might not get it graded at all through a TPG. Though it has VG details, let us consider that your dealer was probably not that unfair to you if he purchased your BULK at a fair price....cleaned or not !

submitted with all due respect JJM.

coinfreak499 · December 11, 2005 5:47AM

<< <i>ok, well maybe I am wrong,...is this coin "barely a G" ? >>

Did he tell you this coin graded "barely a G"? It looks VF details to me but corroded. Still alot nicer than a G4.

lordmarcovan · December 11, 2005 5:49AM

Like WTCG said, grading is subjective, and differences of opinion will arise.

Like Russ said, those EAC folks can be brutally strict.

That being said, I think anyone who'd call the coin you showed a picture of "barely Good" needs his eyes checked.

JJM · December 11, 2005 5:57AM

yes , this was one he pushed aside and said $4......anyway were beatin this thread way more than I expected.....I guess I am the exception, but Id rather have a old lg cent that has been in the dirt or attic for awhile with a little corrosion for 10 or $15 dollars than a MS for 1K.......as far as my silver I like my MS Morgans as much as my Circ'd Morgans, and my toners as much as my Whites.....Im not a big fan of slabbed coins, and the whole POP thing, I just buy stuff I like......to each his own right?,....thx again for all your comments, I learned alot......35 years of collecting and still learning,.....this hobby is the best !!!!!

robertpr · December 11, 2005 6:29AM

JJM, try the Buy Sell and Trade board if you want to sell it. There are many folks who browse that board that can buy one dollar coins or thousand dollar coins. You will most likely get a better price than going to a dealer anyway, regardless of the grading scale used.

this dealer really killed me !!!

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