1797 16 stars half dime

rhedden · December 9, 2005 2:44AM

Forgive me while I flood the board with half dime posts, but I'll keep putting them up here as long as I keep getting free attributions from board members...

Here's a badly gouged 1797 16 stars half dime that otherwise has VF detail. It's the only one I've ever owned, so I'm not going to knock it. I guess I'd rather have a coin like this instead of a problem-free G/VG; at least one can see the details. However, it isn't going to be getting slabbed by PCGS any time soon. The early half dimes are not a good series for collectors of "problem-free coins only."

LanLord · December 9, 2005 2:52AM

I nearly bought a really nice 1797 half dime a couple days ago.

It had everything and then some, the eagle on the back was all there.

It was $5500. I nearly went into hock for it. I wanted it more than ... well as much as I wanted any of the coins I now own.

One day, I will go back and buy it, if it's not gone.

Cladiator · December 9, 2005 2:57AM

<< Forgive me while I flood the board with half dime posts >>

No forgiving needed. I've been cringing for threads like these lately. Again, magnificent coin. I'm eagerly awaiting Mr. HD's reply.

LanLord · December 9, 2005 3:00AM

No forgiving needed. I've been cringing for threads like these lately.

Yup. We really are missing out on more of these kind of threads.

Barndog · December 9, 2005 3:05AM

Once again I can't see the picture, but the attribution should be easy enough to perform yourself. The 16 star obverse is common to both the LM-2/V-4 and LM-3/V-3 die marriages. Just look at the outer berry (under UNITED) on the reverse. If it is near and under the NI, you have the LM-2/V-4. If it is near and under the D, you have the LM-3/V-3. The latter is considered R-5. I believe the former is R-4. I look forward to being able to see the photos once I get to my home computer!

Cladiator · December 9, 2005 3:18AM

Barndog - by your description it's a LM-2/V-4

MrHalfDime · December 9, 2005 4:03AM

Barndog and Cladiator quite correctly attributed your 1797 half dime as the LM-2/V4, an R4 die marriage. When Valentine first published his half dime monograph, in 1931, he followed the lead of earlier researchers, and numbered the varieties in increasing order of the number of obverse stars (i.e., V1 = 13 stars, V2 = 15 stars, and V3 & V4 = 16 stars). However, when Russ Logan and John McCloskey wrote their comprehensive reference on the Bust half dimes (Federal Half Dimes 1792 - 1837), Russ wanted to renumber the entire series to reflect the emission sequence, or the order that they were manufactured. Of course, in many cases this required extensive detailed research to determine that order. But for the half dimes of 1797, an eventful year in American history, the sequence was rather obvious. For the first die marriage in 1797 (LM-1/V2), the design from the previous year, with fifteen stars, was retained. The established precedent, of placing the same number of stars on the obverse as the number of states in the Union, was followed. Then, later in the year, when Tennessee was admitted to the Union, the number of obverse stars was increased to 16. There are two die marriages with 16 stars (LM-2/V4 and LM-3/V3), both using the same obverse die. Later in the year it was determined that it would be futile to continue adding stars as the Union expanded, especially for such a small coin, so the Mint went back to 13 stars, for the original 13 colonies.

Your coin is an example of the LM-2/V4, with 16 stars, easily differentiated from the other 16 star marriage by the position of the berry on the reverse, in this case between NI of UNITED. It is an R4 marriage, one of the more common for the date.

Please do not make any apologies for posting so many half dime images. It hardly gets old, seeing these beautiful early half dimes.

lordmarcovan · December 9, 2005 4:15AM

<< 1797 16 stars half dime >>

Yes, please.

<< The early half dimes are not a good series for collectors of "problem-free coins only." >>

Sheesh- tell me about it. It took me 2 1/2 years to find one for my old type set, and even then I had to make some compromises.

Barndog · December 9, 2005 4:32AM

<< Please do not make any apologies for posting so many half dime images. It hardly gets old, seeing these beautiful early half dimes >>

In fact, Rhedden should apologize for posting too few early half dimes! More, more, more, please!

rhedden · December 9, 2005 4:46AM

OK, you asked for it... I have about 250 Seated coins I need to start photographing this weekend...

Barndog · December 9, 2005 4:56AM

<< OK, you asked for it... I have about 250 Seated coins I need to start photographing this weekend... >>

1797 16 stars half dime

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