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Proof commem selling for melt value on eBay?

JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Am I missing something? The 1987 Constitution coin has 0.24 ounce of gold, so it's melt value is around .24 X 480 = 115. (Yeah, I know the ounce is up to $490, but bear w/ me.)

How come those sets sold for basically melt value?


US Constitution proof set 1

US Constitutionproof set 2

US Constitution proof coin 1

Am I missing something?

Thanks - JD
"The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
Robert A. Heinlein

Comments

  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    A standard modern $5 gold coin is one-tenth of an ounce of gold.

    The silver coin is one ounce.

    Melt value is closer to $57 than the sales price.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Today's $5 gold commems don't have as much gold as an old half eagle.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Deadhorse and Ziggy 29 are mistaken. Modern commems have the same amount of gold as a classic $5. This misconception may be part of the reason they're not valued as highly.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
    The papers say this coin has 0.24 ounce of gold.
    "The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>Deadhorse and Ziggy 29 are mistaken. Modern commems have the same amount of gold as a classic $5. This misconception may be part of the reason they're not valued as highly. >>



    According to the 2006 Redbook, the gold commem is the same composition as modern gold bullion coins. A $5 modern Saint is one-tenth of an ounce.

    You made me look it up.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Deadhorse and Ziggy 29 are mistaken. Modern commems have the same amount of gold as a classic $5. This misconception may be part of the reason they're not valued as highly. >>

    I may be thinking of the gold eagles being sold today.
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>According to the 2006 Redbook, the gold commem is the same composition as modern gold bullion coins. A $5 modern Saint is one-tenth of an ounce. >>

    If that's what the Red Book says, it's wrong. Modern gold commems have the same composition as their historical counterparts. A $5 gold commem such as the 1987 Constitution is the exact same size and composition as an 1887 half eagle.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Indeed. Quoting the 2005 redbook, p264:

    Stateu of Liberty, Constitiution
    The commemorative half eagle is the first of this denomination to be minted in over fifty years. Standards for the weight and size are the same as previous half eagle gold coins.

    Deadhorse is confusing bullion $5 coins with commemorative $5 coins. As I said, this may be part of the reason they're discounted by some.

    I happen to think the sets are a great way to add gold and silver to a portfolio without paying a premium. I bought 3 sets just recently. They're beautiful and cheap.
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
    image

    I stole that from one of the auctions...
    "The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    I sit corrected!

    I made a phone call to a local bullion dealer. That coin is indeed a throwback to the original $5 gold. Redbook is somewhat vague and simply states the compositionis the same as modern bullion.

    It is indeed .24 ounces.

    Learn something new everyday. My bad.

    Edit: Looks like the 2005 Redbook has better info than the 2006.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • ILikeDimesILikeDimes Posts: 367
    I have a COA from the set...........gold coins are 0.24 troy ounces of pure gold

  • 100proof1957100proof1957 Posts: 6,231 ✭
    is a 1/4 eagle not .11169 ounces pure

    or am i confusing avoiuduproise with troy ?
    image
  • JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
    This is highly entertaining...
    "The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>is a 1/4 eagle not .11169 ounces pure

    or am i confusing avoiuduproise with troy ? >>



    No, the US Mint threw us a curve ball. This is a throwback set and the compostion is specific to this set.

    I wish I had been aware of this a few years ago. It's obviously a misunderstood set.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • 100proof1957100proof1957 Posts: 6,231 ✭
    my 5.00 eagles state 1/10 ounce fine
    image
  • michaelmichael Posts: 9,524 ✭✭✭
    someone got a good deal
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>my 5.00 eagles state 1/10 ounce fine >>



    They are one-tenth of an ounce.

    This is a specific commemorative set and obviously greatly misunderstood.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • 100proof1957100proof1957 Posts: 6,231 ✭
    lemmee get this straight.

    y'all are saying that the 5.00 Commems are .24 ouncce gold and the eagles are .10 ounce gold ?

    if thats the case it aint no wonder i cant buy Rushmores for a hunnert bucks !
    image
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>This is a specific commemorative set [...] >>

    No it's not! All modern gold commems have the same size and compositions has their historical counterparts*. A 1984 Olympic $10 has the same amount of gold as an 1884 $10. A 2001 US Capitol $5 has the same size and composition as a 1901 $5.

    Everyone is confusing the American Gold Eagle bullion coins with the Modern Commemorative coins. They are different! They are minted to different standards!

    MODERN GOLD COMMEMS are .900 fine and same standard as historical gold coins:
    $5 -- .24 oz gold
    $10 -- .48 oz gold

    AMERICAN GOLD EAGLES are .9167 fine (and fwiw, are the same standard as Krugerrands, for which they were designed to replace)
    $5 -- .1 oz gold
    $10 -- .25 oz gold
    $25 -- .5 oz gold
    $50 -- 1 oz gold

    Got it?


    * exception: 2000 Bimetallic Library of Congress $10
  • mhammermanmhammerman Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭
    "AMERICAN GOLD EAGLES are .9167 fine (and fwiw, are the same standard as Krugerrands, for which they were designed to replace)."

    So what ever happened to that proposal for the US Mint to make .999 pure gold coins for sale?
  • 100proof1957100proof1957 Posts: 6,231 ✭
    well hell,we are gonna be here all day !

    i assumed the eagles and the commems were the same weight !

    no wonder i cant buy commems for the same price as 5.00 eagles.

    Paging Mr Dumbass,Mr Stupid Dumbass
    image
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>So what ever happened to that proposal for the US Mint to make .999 pure gold coins for sale? >>

    If we're lucky, it will die a slow and painful death.
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jesus H Christ!

    Go read a doggone redbook.

    I can't believe the questions here!

    Look at Flaminos answer, EXACTLY CORRECT!

    As for the .999 coin, come on, that was announced recently. We are talking about a 1987 half eagle in this post (originally!).
  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭
    In answer to the original question posed by JDelage the $5 constitution was made in large quantities (don't know the exact # but I think it was it is ~ low to mid six figures). In addition, some think it is an undesirable, butt ugly design (read that in a recent COINS magazine). Personally, I think it is one of the best gold commem. designs going - it is simply a gorgeous design IMHO.

    By the way, in answer to the second question posed here - I will purchase all of the $5 commemorative gold coins any of you might want to supply me for $75 per. If that doesn't tell you something......
    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
    –John Adams, 1826
  • AgMeAgMe Posts: 881
    They're kind of ugly coins, you can get some really nice ones on TT for close to spot.

    Overall though, the prices are nice.

    ~g image
    I listen to your voice like it was music, [ y o u ' r e ] the song I want to know.

    image

    I'd give you the world, just because...

    Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
    and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
  • MesquiteMesquite Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭
    AgMe's 1988 $5 Olympic gold commem. icon is simply the best design on a modern (never have bought one though) - but, in my book the $5 constitution is right up there only a notch or so below the '88. Both the '88 and '87 beat hell out of the Michelin-man look of the (86?) $5 SOL, again only my opinion.
    There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.
    –John Adams, 1826
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    image


    image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • eyoung429eyoung429 Posts: 6,374 ✭
    Dang I love that pissed eagle!!!!!!!
    This is a very dumb ass thread. - Laura Sperber - Tuesday January 09, 2007 11:16 AM image

    Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
  • JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
    So I emailed the editors of the Red Book:



    << <i>Hi,

    I have the spiral-bound version of this book, and I found a comment that is misleading to most readers. On p. 262 it says of commemorative coins that "All are the standard weight and fineness of traditional gold, silver, or clad coins, and all are legal tender."

    The $5 gold commemorative coins contain 0.24 ounce of gold, whereas the modern $5 gold bullion contain 0.10 ounce. I realize that "traditional" probably refers to the old 1/2 eagles, but this is highly confusing, and would warrant a clarification I believe.

    Thanks,

    Joss Delage >>



    Here is what they responded:


    << <i>Good morning Joss,

    I hope this note finds you well.

    Thank you for your email. I appreciate your taking the time to write in with a suggestion for the next edition of the Red Book. You raise a very good point, and I will make that reference to commemorative weights more clear in the 2007 edition.

    Best wishes,

    -- Dennis Tucker >>

    "The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's awesome. Well done!
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>So I emailed the editors of the Red Book:



    << <i>Hi,

    I have the spiral-bound version of this book, and I found a comment that is misleading to most readers. On p. 262 it says of commemorative coins that "All are the standard weight and fineness of traditional gold, silver, or clad coins, and all are legal tender."

    The $5 gold commemorative coins contain 0.24 ounce of gold, whereas the modern $5 gold bullion contain 0.10 ounce. I realize that "traditional" probably refers to the old 1/2 eagles, but this is highly confusing, and would warrant a clarification I believe.

    Thanks,

    Joss Delage >>



    Here is what they responded:


    << <i>Good morning Joss,

    I hope this note finds you well.

    Thank you for your email. I appreciate your taking the time to write in with a suggestion for the next edition of the Red Book. You raise a very good point, and I will make that reference to commemorative weights more clear in the 2007 edition.

    Best wishes,

    -- Dennis Tucker >>

    >>




    Good job! image

    Besides learning something new, I was feeling like I couldn't read either. I just grabbed my new Redbook and went with that as it was written.

    I've got it now.... finally.

    I've since been searching eBay for these coins and have found very few offered and those that I have found seem to be priced accordingly based on curent bids.

    Snatching one at melt or below seems unlikely now. image
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
    I've bought quite a few at melt, sometimes a couple bucks below melt, in the last few weeks. There are a *lot* of them. With the shipping cost it goes over melt, but it's still cheaper than to buy 1 or 2 bullion coins from one of the large dealers. It was an interesting learning experience for me.
    "The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>I've bought quite a few at melt, sometimes a couple bucks below melt, in the last few weeks. There are a *lot* of them. With the shipping cost it goes over melt, but it's still cheaper than to buy 1 or 2 bullion coins from one of the large dealers. It was an interesting learning experience for me. >>



    Hmmm....... I searched eBay last night again for them and only found a total of 5. What sort of keyword are you using? I just went with modern commemorative sets.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
    They're there. I just won a 1987 $5 Constitution commem for $112.55, i.e. below melt. of course shipping is $9.5, so there's no real abitrage at the end.
    "The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    Here some, search other ways too there all over the place.

    modern gold on Ebay
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>They're there. I just won a 1987 $5 Constitution commem for $112.55, i.e. below melt. of course shipping is $9.5, so there's no real abitrage at the end. >>



    Well I'll be darned if I can find them. I've tried a couple of different search approaches. I still come up with 5 and they all have several days to go.

    Consider yourself lucky, blessed or something. Again, what term are you using to search for them?
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>Here some, search other ways too there all over the place.

    modern gold on Ebay >>




    Thanks, that's an approach I hadn't tried.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • JDelageJDelage Posts: 724 ✭✭
    That's exactly my query.
    "The greatest productive force is human selfishness."
    Robert A. Heinlein
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    Thanks to this thread I realized I had a couple of gold and silver commem sets on Yahoo wayyyy below melt. I 've canceled those auctions and wholesaled the gold out. I'll lay off the silver dollar capsules later.

    Whew! Hard enough to make money as it is. image

  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks to this thread I realized I had a couple of gold and silver commem sets on Yahoo wayyyy below melt. I 've canceled those auctions and wholesaled the gold out. >>

    Why would you do that? You probably could've made more money putting them on eBay at 1c/NR.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Why would you do that? You probably could've made more money putting them on eBay at 1c/NR. >>




    Make more money eBay? Actually no.
  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    Don't overlook the $10 Olympic sets they used to be easy pickens too. The $10 pieces have almost a half ounce of gold a piece.

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