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1871 and 1872 Shallow N Indian Cents
EagleEye
Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am unsure how many people are aware of the reverse differences found on Indian cents so I'll post some basic information.
In 1869 the reverse used was the Shallow N. This design was made to strike up the copper-nickel cents better. In 1870 William Barber redesigned the reverse and created the Bold N design. The Shallow N design was no longer needed to strike up the bronze cents.
In 1870 the coins come with Shallow N, Bold N and (similar to the 1878 8/7 Tail Feather Morgan's) numerous doubled dies : Bold N over Shallow N.
In 1871 most coins are Bold N reverses.
A very few Shallow N's are known. Here is one of the finest known: (Stewart Blay has a MS-65RD)
In 1872 they also come both ways:
Here's a Bold N
And here's a Shallow N (with a neat obverse variety):
As you know, all Mint State 1877's have a Shallow N. These are all from one die! Imagine the entire mintage of 852,500 from a single reverse die! I doubt that. In a 1998 Numismatist article I wrote, I said that either the minatge was wrong, some of the pieces recorded were dated 1876, or a huge amount were melted without a trace. In any event there were only about 200,000 1877's made - that number being the average die life.
Of course, all Proofs from 1877 are of the Bold N reverse.
In 1869 the reverse used was the Shallow N. This design was made to strike up the copper-nickel cents better. In 1870 William Barber redesigned the reverse and created the Bold N design. The Shallow N design was no longer needed to strike up the bronze cents.
In 1870 the coins come with Shallow N, Bold N and (similar to the 1878 8/7 Tail Feather Morgan's) numerous doubled dies : Bold N over Shallow N.
In 1871 most coins are Bold N reverses.
A very few Shallow N's are known. Here is one of the finest known: (Stewart Blay has a MS-65RD)
In 1872 they also come both ways:
Here's a Bold N
And here's a Shallow N (with a neat obverse variety):
As you know, all Mint State 1877's have a Shallow N. These are all from one die! Imagine the entire mintage of 852,500 from a single reverse die! I doubt that. In a 1998 Numismatist article I wrote, I said that either the minatge was wrong, some of the pieces recorded were dated 1876, or a huge amount were melted without a trace. In any event there were only about 200,000 1877's made - that number being the average die life.
Of course, all Proofs from 1877 are of the Bold N reverse.
Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
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Comments
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Tom
There is no reason that they shouldn't be listed in the Red Book (I'm not getting resistance). Just look at the treatment given the Tarde Dollars with the reverse types.
An old comparison pic from my files. The different size and shape of the serifs on the N's are obvious.
KoolCoin
Presently PCGS does not label the 1869/69 or any of the Shallow N's (1870, 1871 and 1872). To get the label on you have to send them through the Mint Errors program. This does not mean they are Mint errors, it's just the nomenclature that they use on the label.
great post Rick,
I think the 71 and 72 shallow N's will get a nice boost when PCGS starts labeling them.
PS: I see KoolCoin likes my 1877 IHC.
Connor Numismatics Website
Thanks,
KoolCoin George
Why did it take so long after moving from CuNi to Copper to change the die if the reason for the shallow N was for strike?
Why did it show up again in 1877?
Why did it take so long after moving from CuNi to Copper to change the die if the reason for the shallow N was for strike?
Why did it show up again in 1877?
Good questions.
I don't know for sure, but I'll offer a guess.
I think it was not so important to Longacre to change it, with all the new designs he was making 1865-1869. He died January 1st, 1869. When William Barber took over he saw that it needed to be reworked.
There was a good chance that, just like 3-Cent and 5-Cent Nickels, the 1877 cent might have existed only in proof. They just needed one reverse die, and just by chance had a shallow N die on hand. (perhaps these were in the back of the die cabinet and when supplies of dies got low they got one of these out. First-in, last-out.
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
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Do we know for sure that PCGS will start labelling these in the future? (Shallow 'N's)
Drunner
and Rick . .thanks for the email on the 1903 PL . . . informative.
Hi Rick, For your records I have an 1871 in PCGS ms 65 red with a shallow N and an 1872 ms 64 red with a shallow N.
Stewart
Link to Q & A board regarding Shallow N Indian cents.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
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