How do I confirm my coin is Ex-Eliasberg?

jpkinla · November 9, 2005 1:44AM

I bought the 1920 Saint in the Morse sale and have been told it is the Eliasberg coin. How can I confirm this? Can anyone help?

RYK · November 9, 2005 1:49AM

John,

I have been on a mission to discover ex-Eliasberg gold coins that have lost their pedigrees. So far, I have identified two (in the last two years), and I am constantly on the prowl. I have done so by matching the images of coins to the images in the Eliasberg catalog. This is exceedingly difficult because the catalog photos are low quality (compared to contemporary catalogs), smaller, and very contrasty.

A coin like yours, with an absence of distinctive marks, will be next-to-impossible to id in the fashion.

The other way, of course, is to retrace the ownership chain of the coin by receipts back to the sale. Also, a daunting, if not impossible, task. Good luck.

Robert

jpkinla · November 9, 2005 1:55AM

Robert,

Unfortunately with this date it becomes more difficult as NGC has 7 65's. I have seen TWO of those and one of them was from the "Browning" collection.

This particular 1920 has some natural copper spotting on the reverse which may assist. Of course I am not privy to a Eliasberg catalog so I cannot tell.

Not going to be easy hence my posting....

Thanks!

dbldie55 · November 9, 2005 1:56AM

Who told you it was the Eliasberg coin? I would start there. They should have more info on it.

Numismanic · November 9, 2005 1:56AM

Heritage last traded the coin in a private sale in 1996, maybe they would have some documentation for it?

saintguru · November 9, 2005 1:57AM

David Hall could probably verify it because he boughtthe coin from the Eliasberg sale!

saintguru · November 9, 2005 2:01AM

That coin looks like ex-Julius Rosenberg.

jpkinla · November 9, 2005 2:04AM

I will ask DH

saintguru · November 9, 2005 2:05AM

Roy Cohn is dead so you can't ask him....

Coinosaurus · November 9, 2005 2:09AM

The 1920 Saint in the Eliasberg gold catalog (1982) is unfortunately not plated.

Edited to add, the catalog mentions no distinguishing marks, either.

topstuf · November 9, 2005 2:13AM

In a related but smaller issue, I am searching the entire house for my Steve McQueen estate auction catalog cuz I'm cleaning out a buncha stuff and among the litter is my last lot from the auction. IN the catalog (I think) is my Certificate of Authenticity. I have no idea where to look next. Problem is that I took HUNDREDS of books to the book store a few months ago and....well....maybe.....snif.

I may have converted a Steve McQueen collectible into a plain old toy.

BuffaloIronTail · November 9, 2005 2:27AM

OK.....it happens.......

BUT........how can ANYONE lose a pedigree on a coin from "THE KING OF COINS" collection?

Now, I realize we are talking about a LOT of coins.............

There has to be some chain of ownership somewhere.

Pete

topstuf · November 9, 2005 2:39AM

Try calling the cops. When I had the pawnshop, they were so zealous that they even confiscated an item from one of my customers that had been SOLD to me by the lady who reported the theft.

Amazing.

RYK · November 9, 2005 2:51AM

Of course I am not privy to a Eliasberg catalog so I cannot tell.

I have the catalog at home and will check tonight.

I forgot to add that I have it on good authority that the original photo plates from the catalog have been lost or destroyed.

saintguru · November 9, 2005 2:52AM

The pics suck. I looked at them recently and you wouldn't be able to identify the coin.

RYK · November 9, 2005 3:02AM

Here are the two coins I rediscovered:

1858 $10

1868 $2.5 proof gold

Coinosaurus · November 9, 2005 5:24AM

<< <i>
BUT........how can ANYONE lose a pedigree on a coin from "THE KING OF COINS" collection?
>>

If you had the coin upgraded since the auction, and didn't want anyone to know the cataloguer had a different opinion of the coin, then you might "lose" the pedigree in a hurry, or "forget" to mention it to whoever buys your coin. This doesn't just apply to Eliasberg, but to all pedigrees.

Conder101 · November 9, 2005 9:12AM

<< <i>The pics suck. I looked at them recently and you wouldn't be able to identify the coin. >>

Not from the photos printed in the catalog, but B&M may still have the negatives in their archives and it may be identifiable from a new quality print from those negatives. (If they hired out the photography, find out who did it and see if THEY have the negatives.) Of course someone said that the 1920 wasn't plated so you may be out of luck. Of course they may have photographed it even though it wasn't plated. So check with B&M and see if you can get a GOOD picture of the Eliasberg coin.

RYK · November 9, 2005 9:21AM

Not from the photos printed in the catalog, but B&M may still have the negatives in their archives and it may be identifiable from a new quality print from those negatives.

I have it on good authority that the originals are all lost, missing, or destroyed. I have inquired on this in the past.

RYK · November 9, 2005 12:50PM

Here is what is published in the Eliasberg US Gold Collection catalog:

Lot 1050: 1920 Select Brilliant Uncirculated, MS-63

(no picture is provided)

jpkinla · November 11, 2005 2:52AM

David Hall confirmed that IT IS the Eliasberg coin!

RYK · November 11, 2005 3:02AM

David Hall confirmed that IT IS the Eliasberg coin!

That's great!

I would like to know how he knows that it is.

markglicker · November 11, 2005 3:16AM

I have both of the Eliasberg U.S. Auction catalogs, send me a scan, and I will see if it matches up.

Oops, guess I should have read the responses first. Congrats.

jpkinla · November 11, 2005 4:25AM

I have no idea how he knows. But HE KNOWS.....I sent him an email asking David Hall if he could confirm it. I am going to send in the coin and have "Eliasberg" put on the holder.....

jpkinla · December 5, 2005 4:25AM

I have just been given my coin back WITH the Eliasberg pedigree on the holder.....Cert #06554924.......

How do I confirm my coin is Ex-Eliasberg?

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