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Lowball offer vs. insulting offer
Geoman
Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭
What defines the difference between receiving a lowball offer from a dealer, than a outrageously insulting low offer? I suppose it is a fine line, that must be looked at separately for each situation. However, if a dealer is only offering 50% of bid, is that insulting to you? I expect dealers to be back of bid some, and to make a "reasonable" profit. However, to offer something that isn't even 50% of what they will sell it for, that frustrates me.
I have a roll of 1921 Morgans that I brought in to sell. Nothing special, just low MS-quality coins, maybe a few "slider BU" coins included. I was offered $4 each. Come on, melt is well above that. I was asking for $10, hoping to get $9 each. But when he offered $4 each, I was insulted, and left his shop. I did remind him silver what silver was, and he won't change his price. So I walked. What do you think?
I have a roll of 1921 Morgans that I brought in to sell. Nothing special, just low MS-quality coins, maybe a few "slider BU" coins included. I was offered $4 each. Come on, melt is well above that. I was asking for $10, hoping to get $9 each. But when he offered $4 each, I was insulted, and left his shop. I did remind him silver what silver was, and he won't change his price. So I walked. What do you think?
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Comments
<< <i>... What do you think? >>
I think that what is "lowball" or "insulting" to one person, might not be to another. Rightly or wrongly, it is also often determined by what the seller paid and/or thinks of his coins.
That said, if your coins were even close to as described, that offer was pathetic.
I think you were right in this case if your description is accurate and complete. Offering you $4 for Morgans -- even 1921 Morgans -- in just about any condition is an offer so far below melt value that I would find it insulting. Even '21 Morgans generally sell for more than "junk silver" value, which is what, about $5.50 or $6 per dollar face value these days?
Had he started with (say) $6, I might have thought it a "low" offer but high enough to work with as the start of the haggling process, IMO.
<< <i>However, if a dealer is only offering 50% of bid, is that insulting to you? >>
Not necessarily. Some stuff isn't worth much more than that after considering carrying and selling expenses. For example, common proof and mint sets.
<< <i>I was offered $4 each. Come on, melt is well above that. >>
Now, that IS insulting.
Russ, NCNE
I would far rather pay a fair price, consistantly, and get referrals, than make a few bucks by taking advantage of ignorance. Then again, that's just me.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
One of my sources offers 30-20% off retail; right off the bat to his best customers... and that discount has to come from somewhere...
I would think for "typical" coin shops, 50-70% back of retail is normal.
I feel for you though.
A lot of risk to be a dealer...
~g
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
AU+ silver dollars would cost him a customer permanently if he offered it to me.
<< <i>Low-ball offers are OK and even insulting offers are generally tolerable but $4 for
AU+ silver dollars would cost him a customer permanently if he offered it to me. >>
Hmmm, I can't say I've ever felt an emotion from a bid, if it's too low, there will be a few counter offers & then the final "pass" which ends that conversation.
~g
I'd give you the world, just because...
Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
After all, YOU were the one that went to him and solicited his offer...he didn't come to you.
He might not have wanted the material, but at a rediculously low price he'd be a buyer of anything...as most would also. So he might have opted not to turn you away and hurt your feelings by telling you that he has no interest in what you're selling, so he might have offered you a price at which he wouldn't have to "think" about the purchase.
Don't ever get insulted -- and don't respond negatively -- just say, "thanks for the offer, I'll pass".
That very same dealer might have something of interest to you later on, and if you carry yourself professionally and establish a repore, he might give you first crack or a good deal.
Also, you might want to come back to the dealer, soliciting offers on other material that he might actually have an interest in, and he'd probably make you a much more competitive offer on something that he was actually "in the market" for.
Just my 10 cents
<< <i>Not that I approve of the dealer's offer, but why would anyone get insulted based on what a person offered them if THEY are the ones that solicited an offer?
After all, YOU were the one that went to him and solicited his offer...he didn't come to you.
He might not have wanted the material, but at a rediculously low price he'd be a buyer of anything...as most would also. So he might have opted not to turn you away and hurt your feelings by telling you that he has no interest in what you're selling, so he might have offered you a price at which he wouldn't have to "think" about the purchase.
Don't ever get insulted -- and don't respond negatively -- just say, "thanks for the offer, I'll pass".
That very same dealer might have something of interest to you later on, and if you carry yourself professionally and establish a repore, he might give you first crack or a good deal.
Also, you might want to come back to the dealer, soliciting offers on other material that he might actually have an interest in, and he'd probably make you a much more competitive offer on something that he was actually "in the market" for.
Just my 10 cents
Don't get me wrong. If he offered $4 for an item that was worth 12 it wouldn't be insulting,
just ridiculously low. Even if it were a $20 item it wouldn't cause me to not do business with
him. But a silver dollar is a "commodity" sort of item. It's almost like cash. When they offer
$4 for these it's about equivalent to saying "in the future your $20 bills will only be credited
as $5 bills".
A dealer is always turning over this type of coin so his expense in handling it is minimal.
People (for some reason) believe dealers are market makers and it is incumbent of them to take slack out of the market -- e.g. buy any material presented to them at some "accepted" price.
Geez, that doesn't even happen on Wall St. Look at all the Micro Caps that don't trade any shares for days/weeks/months at a time. The spread between the bid and ask is too big, and no one wants to buy. If you look at Level II or III quotes, however, you'll see the $0.50 cent stock has a zillion bids, though, at $0.12 cents
Basically, the bidders don't want to own the stock, but at 75% back of the last trade, there are no shortage of buyers. I doubt, however, if management gets offended at Charlie Schwab for having "lowball bids" in on their stock. They simply work at getting those bids to be higher
Suppose the dealer is just plain dumb and only knows one place where he can resell them at $6. In that case I would not consider $4 to be an insulting offer, it just means you have a crappy dealer, not necessarily a crooked one. Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.....or something like that, I forget exactly how that quote goes........
The training probably dictates that you try to make a profit whenever you have the chance. In this case, maybe he already had too many common Morgans, really didn't want more, but felt that he had to make is stab at the coins.
"No thanks, I'm not interested", although a lower offer in reality, would have been the more acceptable offer.
Bad dealer.
<< <i>Once again, I will take the dealer's side.
Suppose the dealer is just plain dumb and only knows one place where he can resell them at $6. In that case I would not consider $4 to be an insulting offer, it just means you have a crappy dealer, not necessarily a crooked one. Never attribute to malice what you can attribute to stupidity.....or something like that, I forget exactly how that quote goes........ >>
No dealer is that stupid or he would have been out of business a long time ago. He's a crook trying to rip some coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you are the seller and you do not give a price up front then you should expect to be low-balled since you are leaving it up to the prospective buyer to establish the starting point.
I do not take low-ball offers personally. It's the natural course of doing business. You can't blame a business person for attempting to acquire inventory at the lowest possible price. Additionally, I know of MANY dealers who do not like to deal the opening salvo when someone is offering them material without stating their price so they low-ball just to get things going.
And one more thing. I don't hear anyone pissing and moaning when they RIP a dealer. This double-standard is out of hand. It's not kosher for a dealer to rip a seller, but it's okay for a seller to rip a dealer.
Bottom line is...If you don't want to be insulted, be prepared to proffer the opening price.
Just my eversohumble opinion.
Cheers,
Bob
1. He thinks you are stupid. Your response "CDN bid is $10 on these coins".
2. He thinks he can buy the same coins at that price elsewhere. Reponse: "CDN bid is $10, who's going to sell these at $4? Widows and orphans?"
3. He's short on funds. Reponse: "Are you worried that you won't be able to pay your utility bill this month?"
4. He's overstocked on Morgans and doesn't really want the coins, unless you want to give them away. Reponse: "There are other dealers who will pay the market for these".
There may be other reasons that appear rational from the dealer's perspective.
Mike
For the morning crowd.
If a dealer wants to stay in business, he/she will buy those coins that are liquid to them and that make them a profit. A dealer does not exist to be the receipient of any ol' coin the general public decides to unload on them quoting the greysheet, retail prices or any other pricing guide. Just because a coin exists does not mean the dealer wants it or has any obligation to buy it. Of course the dealer/public relationship is much more nuanced than this with many factors to consider for the dealer if he wants to remain in business, but a dealer sets up shop to make a living and if the material offered to them does not equate to a healthy profit vs the time, then why shouldn't they pass?
As a collector I decided long ago to create my own market. I can do this now with the advent of the internet and the auction services, specifically Ebay and this PCGS buy/sell board to name a few. I would not have even began to collect coins again without this freedom to make my own market and sell directly to other collectors bypassing the middleman dealer.
The dealer made a lowball offer far below the market value of the coins, but that was not his fault, he was not interested in the coins or he would have offered more if he felt the sale were beneficial / profitable to him. If a collector wants the top dollar for their coins, the collector would be wise to search out and utilize every selling avenue for their benefit. If you want more for your coins (speaking generally here) then don't expect to just walk into a shop and unload them at your price, expect to either do the work to realize the coins highest potential, or expect to receive an offer that is commensurate with someone else who has to take the risk and do the work to sell your coins.
Something to chew on anyway.
Tyler
If someone offers me a rediculously low price for something, I'll counter, if we cannot agree on a price, then its adios amigo!
Now if this dealer attacked your integrity or implied that you were a complete idiot for even thinking of getting more than $4 per coin, then you could feel insulted. Other than that its just business and you have the right to say no.
The name is LEE!
Even if i didn't want the I would tell I have to pass not offer that low
I would say I would pass ans if pressed I would tell you that you should get about 6 to 10 dollars and since I do not want them I would offer to pay $5.00 each and still tell you can get mose somewhere else.
It's the right thing to do
(I just paid $10.00 each for some sliders that really look unc)
He probably feels that if 1 in 5 accept his lowball offer it's better that he make a big buck than a small profit on all five. Frankly most small time coin shops live for the one or two rips a month they get from walk-ins not from the 5-15% they make on regular deals.
If he didn't know you then just understand he was looking for a score, if you have done a lot of business with him before then you need to find a new dealer. In any event I would put him on my "not to do business with" list.
tried to sell him the set about 6 months later and he offered me 425.00
i was insulted.