Are the Young Guns in Numismatics encouraged or hindered by the Old Guard?

Longacre · September 30, 2005 2:18AM

Occasionally you heard the same few names who are said to be "the future of the hobby (on the dealing or research or scholarly side)." The future of the hobby will not be very bright unless there are young guns who come up through the ranks and are there to take the place of the old guard when the older dealers/researchers/scholars slow down a bit.

I am wondering whether the young, bright (and even sometimes aggressive) persons in the hobby are helped or hindered by the old guard? And by hinder, I don't mean outwardly preventing the young guns from pursuing a livelihood in the hobby, but rather not going out of their way to help a rising star to reach the next level. Does anyone have any opinions on this?

On the personal side, I can somewhat relate to what some of the younger generation might be experiencing. In my previous job, I was hired as Tax Director at a Fortune 500 company. I was 29 at the time and the youngest tax director in the history of the company. I felt some "resentment" from the older persons in the department (who were old enough to be my father). I was wondering if there was any similarity in the coin industry with this issue.

dorancoins · September 30, 2005 2:21AM

Well, from my experience as a dealer and also in my involvement in numismatic organizations (most notably the Illinois Numismatic Association), a little of both.

coinguy1 · September 30, 2005 2:43AM

My impression is that many of the "older" dealers are encouraging to and supportive of the "younger" ones. That said, a number from among the "old guard" want/expect something in return, while others are content merely having helped contribute to the hobby's future.

keets · September 30, 2005 2:55AM

i think the Old Guard tends to encourage the Young Guns and my hope would be that they don't allow their bias for certain areas of the hobby to shine through too brightly.

topstuf · September 30, 2005 3:01AM

WTCG · September 30, 2005 3:29AM

I can go into this topic a little deeper later on, but here's my brief observation.

Most of the older dealers, especially the ones who are secure with themselves and their survivability in this business will often go out of their way to be as helpful as they can to the younger dealers without expecting anything in return. It is the dealers who are beginning to lose their relevance within the dealing community, those who are insecure with their own operations and those who are experiencing an involuntary decline in volume of business are often the ones who worry excessively about the younger talent and knowingly try to undermine them in the name of envy, personal resentment and jealousy.

On a slightly sinister note, the dealers with more negative attitudes are usually the ones who are easiest to rip. Their egos often obstruct their common sense of judgement.

The same mold applies to collectors as well.

Coinhog · September 30, 2005 3:48AM

RegistryCoin · September 30, 2005 4:05AM

CIVITAS · September 30, 2005 4:19AM

In our three years, we've been very fortunate to have dealt with a number of seasoned dealers who have been very helpful. We've done a pretty good job of figuring out who the win-win attitude guys are, and those are the ones we turn to if in need of help from an experience or financial standpoint. They by default get something in return that way, and we get an education and make a few extra bucks. It's the guys who have the mentality of "In order for me to win, you have to lose." that we avoid. Both types are certainly prevalent.

JSsson · September 30, 2005 12:09PM

I know there are a few of the younger potential future big time dealers who are on the boards here, but I honestly don't see many younger numismatists at all. It seems to me that the vast majority of coin dealers are older men who are at least 50 years old or so. Other than Wei, I haven't seen any young dealers below the age of 35 or so set up at a coin show where they were the business's principal owner. The young men and women I always see behind a bourse table are always the sons, daughters, grandsons, etc. of the main dealer taking the bourse table. Usually they are at the show only to help out, or they work for the older dealer part time.

Touchdown · September 30, 2005 2:44PM

I beleive it is true some dealers don't want to give there honest opinions or advice to the younger generations. The reason might be that no one showed or advised them. But, there are alot more resources out there now. Back in the days dealers learned from dealing mainly. Now a days we can learn alot by the internet, books, publications and coin clubs. Auction company's are a great resource as well. You can now bid and make a deal online rather than in person. I have learned alot from all of the above resources. Many times, I find it difficult to get good advice from dealers. Many of them just want to make money and that is there only objective. But, there are a few out there who are really knowledgeable and don't mind sharing there expertise. But, like I mentioned now there are so many resources that one can learn without relying on dealers. IMO

JSsson · September 30, 2005 2:56PM

Touchdown,

You make some really good points and you are right that there are much more resources than ever before where a person can learn about coins and numismatics from. As a fact, I learned a lot about the business side of numismatics from the internet and from websites like this one. There are a lot of dealers who are only out to make money, but I have found that there are many dealers who try extra hard to make sure you don't get a bad deal and answer any questions you may have about everything, whether it be auctions, buying, selling and etcetera.

However, when it comes to actual dealing as in buying and selling coins, I would think that nothing beats real hands-on experience as a learning tool. It's kind of like learing a new language. You can read all the textbooks you can find, but you learn a lot faster and more efficiently if you immerse yourself in that language and speak it in a real world setting. If I can recall I believe that Wei has stated before that he learned most of what he knows now in dealing numismatics by going to a lot of coin shows of all sizes.

coppercoins · September 30, 2005 3:05PM

Oddly enough I have to disagree with most who have posted thus far...

I consider myself one of the "young guns" in the die variety arena of numismatics. I started into the public side of things about seven years ago (at the age of 29) with the idea that I would try helping the experts in the field with publishing their information in a more user-friendly format--the internet. It seemed that all of the people considered "experts" in the field were shying away from computers, and that was my specialty. It seemed like a win-win situation.

Through nearly two years of failed attempts to contact these people and have them actually respond, I decided to go about publishing what I could of the information I had. I figured if they weren't going to go about making it easier for collectors to collect, I would. I met resistance and resentment around every corner. I was told to pull the information down off the internet, so I did. That's when I went out on my own and developed my own system for identifying die varieties - so "they" coudln't tell me the info was proprietary and I couldn't share it.

So in a way the lack of "old guard" help was a benefit to me. I learned more by working hard at proving or disproving the information rather than just regurgetating it and adding to it. I take nothing for granted and make sure whatever I put out there is correct to the best of my own knowledge, not that of someone else. I have a system that is free for others to use (unlike all the others), and have reguloar contact with nearly a hundred different collectors. I don't ignore any of them and respond to all requests in time.

In a nutshell, getting help from the experts in my field of study has been completely non existant. I had to teach myself and work my way up from the very bottom rung.

Are the Young Guns in Numismatics encouraged or hindered by the Old Guard?

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