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Frustrating conversation with a dealer today ...
Theop
Posts: 515
I just got back from my local month coin show and noticed a dealer I had not seen before set up there (I haven't been there in a few months).
Well this dealer had some nice PCGS and NGC coins in his cases, but no visible prices. So I inquired about a 1909 VDB cent in PCGS 65 Red. This is in a green holder (not a rattler). He told me "that is in a old green holder so I have it priced as a 66". In fact, he also had a blue holdered PCGS 66 for the same price: $275. His rational was that all green holders will upgrade. So I told him that most of the ones that would upgrade have already been upgraded and that I see OGH or even rattler 09 VDB 65 reds on ebay quite often at little or no premiums to blue holders (less than half the $275 he was asking).
To top it off, he also had a green holdered 16-D dime in G6, and when I asked how much it was, he said "I can't quote you a price" and implied it too was priced at a grade higher than that on the holder.
Have you ever met any dealers who take this stance? I figure this is just another way to try and fool people, since if this really was a 66, it would well be worth the $30 to have the coin upgraded.
P.S. This guy is also listing this coin on ebay with the same price and this in his auction: "EVERYONE KNOWS THAT GREEN LABELS UP GRADE TO THE NEXT GRADE".
So, does "everyone" know this????
Well this dealer had some nice PCGS and NGC coins in his cases, but no visible prices. So I inquired about a 1909 VDB cent in PCGS 65 Red. This is in a green holder (not a rattler). He told me "that is in a old green holder so I have it priced as a 66". In fact, he also had a blue holdered PCGS 66 for the same price: $275. His rational was that all green holders will upgrade. So I told him that most of the ones that would upgrade have already been upgraded and that I see OGH or even rattler 09 VDB 65 reds on ebay quite often at little or no premiums to blue holders (less than half the $275 he was asking).
To top it off, he also had a green holdered 16-D dime in G6, and when I asked how much it was, he said "I can't quote you a price" and implied it too was priced at a grade higher than that on the holder.
Have you ever met any dealers who take this stance? I figure this is just another way to try and fool people, since if this really was a 66, it would well be worth the $30 to have the coin upgraded.
P.S. This guy is also listing this coin on ebay with the same price and this in his auction: "EVERYONE KNOWS THAT GREEN LABELS UP GRADE TO THE NEXT GRADE".
So, does "everyone" know this????
Dave - Durham, NC
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Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
He's selling should be coins and pricing them at the grade they should be
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Green holder vs Red?
Rattler?
Thanks ... Ken
<< <i>I asked a dealer at the last show I attended where he got his prices from and he said "I just look up what Jack Beymer is charging"
I had a dealer once tell me that, too. Wonder if it's the same guy. Was he from NY?
I was tempted to tell him my name's Lloyd Benson and he's no Jack Beymer...
Ken- there are many different "generations"™ of pcgs holders (and other grading companies holders), with differing viewpoints on how "tight" or "loose" the grading standards were at that time. Many of the older pcgs holders (differing green labels, first gen. that rattled a bit if you shook them, etc) have been perceived as potential upgrade candidates, because the graders were reportedly more strict at that time. Various premiums are often charged for them.....
Edited to add: If you search through the forum archives, you can probably find many threads about different generations of holders- I know there's an extensive thread created by Conder that had pictures and info about all of the pcgs holders over the years.....
He was actually refering to a lincoln cent in an older generation holder (green) that had been given a "red" designation for color........
If I think the coin is priced fairly, I'll buy it.
If I think the coin is a little overpriced, I'll make him an offer that I think is fair.
However, if I think the coin is WAAAAY overpriced, I just smile and move on to the next table.
<< <i>I never comment on a dealers price.
If I think the coin is priced fairly, I'll buy it.
If I think the coin is a little overpriced, I'll make him an offer that I think is fair.
However, if I think the coin is WAAAAY overpriced, I just smile and move on to the next table. >>
Sleep well tonight for the 82nd Airborne Division is on point for the nation.
AIRBORNE!
42/92
<< <i>So I told him that most of the ones that would upgrade have already been upgraded and that I see OGH or even rattler 09 VDB 65 reds on ebay quite often at little or no premiums to blue holders (less than half the $275 he was asking). >>
If I'd been the dealer I've have said good, go buy one on eBay. Frankly, your response was rude.
Russ, NCNE
It would be obviously easier to sell a upgraded coin in a newer slab than a lower graded one in an older slab for the same price (especially when that 1 point upgrade doubles the value).
A dealer should know what they paid for a coin. If they can sell the coin for what they paid plus X, they should be fine. When dealers start to worry too much about how much they *could* make on a coin vs. how much they need to make, that's when it's time to start shopping elsewhere.
We've got two shops here in town; one I go to and one I used to. It was bought out not too long ago by a wannabe who owns a restaurant supply company about a mile away. When he first bought the shop, he had a sign on the door that instructed potential customers to call his other business and wait for him to get there. No thanks.
But my regular shop was closed yesterday, and when I drove past this phone-and-wait store I saw a woman behind the counter and a couple customers, so I figured what the heck. They had something close to what I was looking for: slabbed common gold. In this case it was an anacs Constitution $5 graded PF68. I asked how much it was. Wouldn't you know it? She picks up the phone and calls Mr. Wannabe and spends literally the next 12 minutes with him trying to size me up, figure out what they paid (despite the fact that she read him their pricing code sticker twice), then search the red book, then the greysheet, then try to figure out how much gold is in it (I had to tell her it's the same standard as previous $5 golds), then they had to find spot gold prices, and try to size me up again.
She finally says: It's got $120 worth of gold in it (untrue), so we need about $159.
Me: I was expecting melt, or very close to it.
Her: For slabbed? It's slabbed!
Me (politely): Yes, but it's anacs, and it's a 68.
Her: Well, he couldn't do that for slabbed.
Me: Thank you for your time.
Gold's on a run, and it seems almost certain they paid considerably less for it than it is worth now. If their code had been accurate, she should have been able to decifer it quickly, add a profit, and make a sale. Instead I walked and bought 3 on eBay last night for melt.
--Severian the Lame
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Weiss---What a dealer paid for a coin has no bearing on what he should sell it for. >>
Well, we almost agree. What a dealer paid for a coin should have no bearing on what he asks it. It's a free market economy and he's welcome to try to make as much on it as he can. But it should dictate the minimum he can take while still making a buck.
In this case, there is a glut of $5 constitution golds in 1st tier slabs (and I include anacs in that group)--substantially more than needed or wanted by collectors. Consequently, several have sold in the last week on eBay in the $100 to $115 range. Including this NGC PF69 UCAM that closed about a week ago for $113.52.
It seems unlikely he'd have paid a premium for an anacs PF68 when NGC PF69s don't sell at a premium. And if my thumbnail calculations are correct, he likely stood to make about 35% on the sale at $120, which is what I'd have paid.
My other dealer would have figured what he paid for it, figured a fair profit and probably had made the sale. That's a bird in the hand. This dealer was focusing on what he *might* make on it, in a best case (for him) scenario. That's 2 in the bush.
--Severian the Lame
In any case, it doesn't sound like the kind of dealer I would want to do business with.
then if you would offer him this same 1909 vdb old green holdered slab he tells you it is a piece of sh1t and that it would have been cracked out long ago if it was an upgrade candidate
same with raw coins years ago
the dealer has them and they are gods gift and scarce
you come in to sell him back the same coin 6 months later and he tells you it is a common piece of generic crap and that it is overgraded to boot LOL
He's apt to pass, but you just never know.
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
<< <i>[. Frankly, your response was rude.
Russ, NCNE >>
Pot calling kettle black???
Many covet old holders and they bring a premimum. I have never cracked an old holder, as I would rather have the image of upside potential. Old copper & nickel slabs also suggest "stability".
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