I see coin prices rising even further
jpkinla
Posts: 822 ✭✭✭
After seeing the images of the hurricane and its aftermath, and watching the market reactions both initially and now I must say I believe that coin prices will continue their ascent. Especially generic Saints, all gold and high quality numismatic pieces. My reasoning has to do with the inevitable decline in the dollar and the fact that real estate is overpriced. People will look to tangibles and commodities and gold as the place to be. Financial assets like bonds will be the WORST place to be.....
I did have some concern that the hurrican could cause economic conditions to deteriorate to the point where cash would be king but I truly believe we will see a falling dollar and crisis develop in our currency causing a rush to gold and other tangibles.....While I may want to own more bullion and commodities, I think rare coins will continue to attract capital in the coming months....
This tragedy may go down as the event that broke the camel's back and accelerated the decline of the dollar......Look carefully at the images the world will see of the "richest" country in the world.....We can't even take care of our citizens.....It's just downright sad.....
I did have some concern that the hurrican could cause economic conditions to deteriorate to the point where cash would be king but I truly believe we will see a falling dollar and crisis develop in our currency causing a rush to gold and other tangibles.....While I may want to own more bullion and commodities, I think rare coins will continue to attract capital in the coming months....
This tragedy may go down as the event that broke the camel's back and accelerated the decline of the dollar......Look carefully at the images the world will see of the "richest" country in the world.....We can't even take care of our citizens.....It's just downright sad.....
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I think people are going worry about how they're going to pay for fuel more than coins/investments. Coin dealers need gas like the rest of us & they'll have to sell at closer margins to move inventory.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
WS
<< <i>The effects are bigger than the hobby. You are talking about huge impacts on the Nations economy right now, and one that in my opinion was border line. No economist can give you an answer as to where it is heading as it is too complex and the ripple effects are not yet seen or possibly known about yet.. In tough times however, collections are sold. In regards to bullion, I have not a clue or care to guess. But if one more storm hits the US in the next three weeks….
WS >>
The numismatic market does not exist in a vacuum. I think that many members of this forum who do not understand this are in for a shock in the coming months. Bush's performance thus far in this major crisis has been dismal. This is going to have a negative effect on the country's psyche. At the moment I wouldn't touch a numismatic coin at present price levels. I bought one coin at the Central States show last friday. I wish I hadn't.
<< <i>deteriorate to the point where cash would be king >>
It can deteriorate far past that point.
As evidenced by the people of new orleans and other places.
Food, fuel water medicine, shelter if possible, are really all that matter.
I don't look for bullion to do much. It would probably do better if
times became prosperous again, fuel plentiful. war won etc...
Bottom line, gold and silver won't fill up a hungry stomach.
here i am though, still buying coins, lets just pray things get
back to our normal abnormal soon.
<< <i>I'll also post this as a new topic, but since it is related to this thread will also post here. Question is whether the flooding of New Orleans and other Hurricane Damage may have obliterated personal and/or dealer coin collections such that we may have lost rarities? Does anyone know if items in safe deposit boxes in banks in New Orleans have been destroyed/damaged/ and or looted? >>
Blanchard probably has a few million on the arm from dealers. No idea about Stamford, Jefferson..... Oops there goes tens of millions off the market in retail coin sales to boot.
I doubt those looters were only going after portable televisions and pharmacy drugs. Methinks they be in the banks etc?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>The effects are bigger than the hobby. You are talking about huge impacts on the Nations economy right now, and one that in my opinion was border line. No economist can give you an answer as to where it is heading as it is too complex and the ripple effects are not yet seen or possibly known about yet.. In tough times however, collections are sold. In regards to bullion, I have not a clue or care to guess. But if one more storm hits the US in the next three weeks….
WS >>
The numismatic market does not exist in a vacuum. I think that many members of this forum who do not understand this are in for a shock in the coming months. Bush's performance thus far in this major crisis has been dismal. This is going to have a negative effect on the country's psyche. At the moment I wouldn't touch a numismatic coin at present price levels. I bought one coin at the Central States show last friday. I wish I hadn't. >>
How do you feel about the performance of the mayor of New Orleans, who is and has been in Philadelphia, and the governor, or are those just ceremonial positions? At least the president is there.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
HS - and you're right about the tangibles for the next many years - anyway.
How do you feel about the performance of the mayor of New Orleans, who is and has been in Philadelphia, and the governor, or are those just ceremonial positions? At least the president is there. >>
I am shocked by our Gov.'s failure to do anything, but the mayor is in Philadelphia?What the in the world is he doing there?I wouldn't let his a** back in.That is the problem right there in a nut shell, the rich went on vacation, while the poor had no choice but to bear the full wrath of this disaster.So we will all pay for this for a long long time.I guess the wealthy people of New Orleans are all French.
GTS
<< <i>
<< <i>deteriorate to the point where cash would be king >>
It can deteriorate far past that point.
As evidenced by the people of new orleans and other places.
Food, fuel water medicine, shelter if possible, are really all that matter.
I don't look for bullion to do much. It would probably do better if
times became prosperous again, fuel plentiful. war won etc...
Bottom line, gold and silver won't fill up a hungry stomach. >>
I agree with this somewhat.... but not totally. One needs to look at the entire spectrum of scenarios that can take place. At one far end of the spectrum are the absolute best of times.... sound economy, strong currency, etc. Gold and silver is very stable and not much in demand; everyone is happy with paper money.
At the other far end of the spectrum, would be total chaos and anarchy, close to what is happening in the Big Easy right now. Cash, gold , silver probably do not mean much; what counts is food, water, who has the gun, etc.
But somewhere in the middle of this spectrum, and I suspect a good amount of it, gold and silver could prove very valuable. This would be at a point where things have not totally broken down, where there is still an economy and some order remaining. A scenario where there is still trade and barter taking place, where paper money is no longer valued. Food and water is available, but it would take a large amount of paper money to obtain it. This is a time when gold and silver would probably hold their own.
Guns and bullets come later when things deteriorate further.
Numismatic coins..... face it..... they are luxuries. They may be a good investment, but I consider them to be further on the spectrum on the "good times" side. A dime worth $25,000 is probably not on too many people's mind when they are in downtown New Orleans at midnight the last couple of nights.
<< <i>There are so many diffferent economic cross currents that it is impossible to confidently predict what will happen. One thing for sure, when nearly everyone is thinking/acting the same way, the opposite will probably come to pass! >>
<< <i> and was probably a bit busy doing more important things. >>
I don't know how long he's been vacationing at his ranch but it seems like a long time to me. There shouldn't be summer vacation for presidents. He can rest when his term is over.
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Bush was "on vacation" the month of August and apparently his staff was too inept toi even consider telling him to get off his ass and respond to a disaster of epic proportions.
There is no way in hell you can say that the response to this has been anywhere near acceptable.
I have watched reports of children, the elderly, the poor suffer for days, some dying IN HOSPITALS.
Our country has shown it may not be as great as it could be.
<< <i>
<< <i> and was probably a bit busy doing more important things. >>
I don't know how long he's been vacationing at his ranch but it seems like a long time to me. There shouldn't be summer vacation for presidents. He can rest when his term is over. >>
The President never vacations like you or I. His staff is there and they are working.
They may take time to clear brush, run, or go bike ridding, but they are working most of the time.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The effects are bigger than the hobby. You are talking about huge impacts on the Nations economy right now, and one that in my opinion was border line. No economist can give you an answer as to where it is heading as it is too complex and the ripple effects are not yet seen or possibly known about yet.. In tough times however, collections are sold. In regards to bullion, I have not a clue or care to guess. But if one more storm hits the US in the next three weeks….
WS >>
The numismatic market does not exist in a vacuum. I think that many members of this forum who do not understand this are in for a shock in the coming months. Bush's performance thus far in this major crisis has been dismal. This is going to have a negative effect on the country's psyche. At the moment I wouldn't touch a numismatic coin at present price levels. I bought one coin at the Central States show last friday. I wish I hadn't. >>
How do you feel about the performance of the mayor of New Orleans, who is and has been in Philadelphia, and the governor, or are those just ceremonial positions? At least the president is there. >>
The performance of politicians, in general, has been dismal regardless of political affiliation. Several local Michigan sheriffs are now heading south to "help". It looks to me to be more political grandstanding than acting to meet a real need. The quality of leadership in this country is exceptionally low. If people don't start demanding better then we are on our way to ruin. Republicans - Democrats equal Tweedle-Dee - Tweedle-Dum.
Karl: "Mr. President, sounds like it's pretty bad down there."
President Bush: "I'm going down there. This other stuff will keep. What has the governor done? She's in charge of the National Guard there."
Karl: "She's the one crying during all the news confrences. Says they need to come up with a plan."
President Bush: "They don't have a plan? New Orleans? You don't come up with a plan after a disaster strikes. What's the mayor doing? Where are his police officers?"
Karl: "He's in Philadelphia, giving speeches about how badly you are handling this. Those are his buses sitting under water instead of having been used in the evacuation. His police officers are looting."
President Bush: "No Senators or Congressman either, I suppose? Let's go and help those people."
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Bridges to no ware are built in Alaska while federal money for maitenance of levy system and pumps
are cut by 50%. This while finding money in the budget for the war. 3,000 troops are being called back from Iraq to go to the gulf states and we are not over extended? No one could anticipate all that has happened but I don't think you can pin it all on state and local leaders. Joe
<< <i>The effects are bigger than the hobby. You are talking about huge impacts on the Nations economy right now >>
We have 30,000 evacuees (we can't say refugees anymore, since the Congressional Black Caucus has ruled that "refugee" is a racist term) in Shreveport, and they are building a tent city for another 25,000-40,000. The effect on our local economy will be devastating. The effect on the LA economy will be too, since New Orleans is where much of the state's money came from. And of course, the amount of human suffering is unimaginable. I think there will be ripple effects economically, but I foresee the economy of Shreveport and Houston both being severely damaged.
What do I think of the performance of Nagin? I think that it's obscenely inappropriate for anyone, let alone a leadership figure, to start cursing and blaspheming on the radio (both GD and a** were prominent in his speech). As far as that moron Blanco, she's a joke and an imbecile, but I knew that before the hurricane hit. As for FEMA, as soon as contraflow ended late Sunday afternoon, trucks should have been stockpiling the Superdome. Can you imagine how many lives would have been saved if FEMA had just brought a truck full of large, empty rubber bladders (that could have been filled up Sunday night with New Orleans tap water)? They KNEW the hurricane was coming, and KNEW over 10,000 people (up to 30,000 at times) would be in the Superdome, yet they didn't provision it??? National guard and FEMA units should have been in Shreveport Monday afternoon and in New Orleans by Tuesday morning. They had several days to get the logistics straightened out and get trucks loaded. There's no reason they couldn't have been there by Tuesday morning, in full force. That imbecile Blanco should have instructed the National Guard to shoot to kill, and that would have stopped a lot of the lawlessness dead in its tracks (martial law was declared but the troops weren't given orders to shoot. I don't think the looters are afraid of going to jail, ya know?).
Last night they had a black Congressman on television, and he was asked "If you found five big screen plasma TVs in a looters house, what should be done to him?" The guy said "Well, I don't think he should be punished unless he has a history of looting..." Nancy Pelosi says it's the Republicans' fault, but I don't see her helping with the relief/rescue effort. The Congressional Black Caucus has all kinds of nice things to say, but I don't see them helping out either--just spouting their racist propaganda.
I feel horrible for the people that *couldn't* get out. The idiots that could get out but decided to wait it out--they can fend for themselves. But the poor people who didn't have a car or any means of escape--those are the ones my heart goes out to.
The push for gold and silver won't come from ma and pop at home.
They will be the last ones on board the PM's and commodities train after the prices are way to high to accept. The silent and strong buying is coming from overseas, wealthy individuals, banks, corporations, funds, etc. Paper money will continue to be the $$ of choice for the average citizen....until they realize it represents little more than paper.
...some crackhead liberals who need to turn every disaster into a political fight. he (Bush) has a lot of responsibility, and was probably a bit busy doing more important things. i think the response time was pretty amazing, and the united states has pulled together very well .
As pappy Bush vactioned during hurricane Andrew.....like father like son. He should have been out of there the day the storm hit.
roadrunner
<< <i>Darkmane...what the hell are you smokin'???
Bush was "on vacation" the month of August and apparently his staff was too inept toi even consider telling him to get off his ass and respond to a disaster of epic proportions.
There is no way in hell you can say that the response to this has been anywhere near acceptable.
I have watched reports of children, the elderly, the poor suffer for days, some dying IN HOSPITALS.
Our country has shown it may not be as great as it could be. >>
Oh yeah it's alway's Bush's Fault!
The City of New Orleans and its residents owe the President a profound debt of gratitude.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Regarding the Hurricane situation, there is plenty of blame to go around. I doubt there are many people in the World who could have come up with an action plan that worked much better than what developed as information became available and verifiable. Things are getting much better now, which in itself is a near miracle given the size of the area affected.
In NO, once the people took shelter in the Superdome and other areas instead of leaving, a disaster was imminent and virtually unstopable.
Sit back , and take the emotion out your evaluation of the resue efforts. Attempt to develop a rescue plan based upon the information that was available in realtime back to the time when the storm was clearly headed for the Gulf region as a CAT 5.
I find it very sad that the residents who decided to stay behind in NO didn't have 3-4 days worth of food and water.
The $500-5000 numismatic coin market looks a little shaky to me.
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
I am actually starting to fear the future.....I agree with BigE....You can't eat dollar bills but at least with gold you can get something useful.....
In 1920 a $20 bill and a 1920 gold piece bought the finest tailored suit you could get. Today that $20 bill won't buy dinner for two but I can still get the suit with a nice 1920 $20 Saint Gaudens coin......That tells me something.....
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
I agree on the dollar but not on the rates.
We are headed for a DEEEE-Pression.
<< <i>Guns and bullets come later when things deteriorate further. >>
Excuse me, but this is no television show. Guns, bullets, pillaging, plundering, Rape and Murder is happening NOW.
I live just over 100 miles from New Orleans and if you want a taste of reality, somehow try to get into New Orleans and experience what real human suffering is like and what dead bloated bodies smell like. The air is thick with heat, humidity and the smells of death, disease and crime fill the air.
Law...you MUST be kidding! People are being raped and murdered while others lie around dying, waiting for something good to happen and it's NOT happening and CAN'T happen overnite. New Orleans is devastated and many other little towns all along the Gulf Coast have been totally wiped off the face of the planet. Understand these words..."The worst disaster to EVER transpire in the history of the United States". Things are BAD and they are going to stay bad and get even worse and stay that way for a long, long time.
To ANYONE that claims to be fearless...Venture outdoors within New Orleans and the surrounding areas in the pitch Black of Night. There are people shooting at would be rescuers, raping nurses, killing each other for a cigarette or a drink of water. I know most of you mean well but unless you go into that area you just cannot appreciate the true impact of all this.
I have family in that area and we went around in what is referred to as Joe-Boats, aluminum hulled, flat-bed fishing boats, trying to help people and let me tell all of you. When we did and will do again because we want to help, we have to go bearing arms and it is STILL scary, like stepping into some sort of door in time where any and everything goes. Almost like the Movie, "Night of the living Dead" except it is living a very real Day and Night of the Living Dead. Nothing but Human misery everywhere. 50,000 troops or other types of authority / rescue workers, National Guard etc trying to handle all this lawlessness and desperation is totally NOT getting it done. Look, basically right now they need to get every living human being outta there and then start pumping water out (but the levee system is shot) and then start hunting for bodies...get the water out and then clean the place up. This is a monumental task beyond all comprehension.
Desperate people do desperate things and when you lack basic human necessities and are trapped with no drinking water and no food and there is no way to get these things in effectively and TO the people. It IS every Man for himself! Words cannot convey the reality that IS New Orleans, right NOW. It's friggin' awful. People you go in to try to help will kill you for your boat and whatever else you may have. Go in the boat I described and just try to be a Good Samaritan with ice and food and water and you'll find out what fear is and running for your life is really like.
Someone asked me today if I was helping. Yeah, whatta ya think but when we go, we go prepared as it is truly crazy and our lives are at stake. See, we're from here and know the area very well indeed and when Night approaches we make damn sure to get the Hell outta there. Gold, silver, rare coins even paper money are MEANINGLESS down there right now. Total Frustration. This is BEYOND most of you guys' imaginations. There is absolutely no way to even try to help you comprehend other than this, my pathetic attempt, which STILL, I'm sure, just does not register with y'all unless you've ever been in a target rich wartime environment.
Sorry for the rant but I feel like I still haven't gotten the point across.
Always has been. People have just forgotten how dependent everything is on everything else.
who believe otherwise are not only whistling past the graveyard but may be squandering
resources which could be put to better use.
Boom kudos for your effort. Stay safe.
$20 Saint Gaudens Registry Set
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I saw starving people in the Maldives sharing the smallest morsels of food with complete strangers, inviting tourists with no place to stay into their homes, risking their lives to help others in need ... this is the normal reaction to severe crisis situations in most parts of the world, both civilized and uncivilized. In New Orleans at present, this type of selflessness and character is the exception.
Good point, and we saw a lot of that thru out SE Asia.
But not New Orleans...........obviously
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Too many people watching star trek - you can't beam in supplies and beam out victims. This was a major NATURAL disaster and it can't be fixed overnight. It's no political parties fault, in spite of what the networks would have you believe. It's going to take time to recover and it's not the end of civilization.