Very suspicious Ebay activity: ATTENTION Ebay police!

bushmaster8 · August 18, 2005 12:29AM

Is it just my own paranoia or is something very odd with this auction:
strange ebay auction

This item did not sell- reserve not met.

Then, several days ago, I get a Second Chance Offer email from lenywalter (seller?).

OK, that's not so odd. But then I realized that there were five (count em) bidders that exceeded my bid. Now that strikes me as very unusual!

So I start a bit of sleuthing, and find some curious facts:

1) the highest bidder currently has no coins for sale, nor is he bidding on any coins--somewhat unusual

2) the second highest bidder is in CA and only bids on coins for sale by Fred weinberg, at least for the last 30days-- OK, everybody has a favorite seller

3) the 3rd highest bidder for the last few months mostly buys baseball cards (90%) and a few art objects (9%), but only a tiny smattering of error coins (1%)-- Abit odd for someone interested in a high powered error coin

4) the 4th & 5th highest bidders seem like legit error freaks, judging from their ebay histories-- very odd that they would not jump at the opportunity to "win" the coin they bid on.

Now I'm not accusing anyone of any wrongdoing here, it just seems really whacky that I am being offered this coin when there were five higher bids!

Am I paranoid??

Barndog · August 18, 2005 12:35AM

Paranoia = due diligence when it comes to second chance offers on ebay. I've received second chance offers under similar circumstances (I recall a 1911-D Indian Quarter Eagle I was offered after the fact by someone who turned out not to be the seller). Just say no! The likelihood of the second chance offer being the result of a scam/spoof or shill bidding is high.

Danegeld · August 18, 2005 12:38AM

Just Say NO. There is something rotten in Denmark...

Gandyjai · August 18, 2005 5:18AM

Something is amiss.....But, I would have to say no to paying that
much for an erro NOT in a respectable slab!

I was VERY interested in this auction but could not bring myself to
"going for it" mainly, because it was not in a slab.
VERY neat coin, though!

Brian

I LOVE

IKES!

KurtHorn · August 18, 2005 5:42AM

Run, run for the hills. That coin looks like someone took a saw to it.

MWallace · August 18, 2005 6:24AM

You might want to read what Fred Weinberg said about this seller. It may be helpful.

LINK

offthehorse · August 18, 2005 6:25AM

take it from the $5000 loser...just say...NO...(unless it is a raw high relief from a seller that you have talked to for two months!)

i just read the previous post...the coin might be legit but beware of cut-and-paste sellers...maybe he IS legit...just be careful...

ILikeDimes · August 18, 2005 6:33AM

auctions over, i'm

Neptune · August 18, 2005 6:35AM

yes, it's interesting what information can turn up when you simply just look. Something appears amiss.

ormandh · August 18, 2005 11:41AM

That is the most unsymmetrical clip that I have ever seen. I do not care what Fred says. I wouldn't touch that with a dollar bill. -Dan

EagleEye · August 18, 2005 1:48PM

There is a phishing scam going on with second chance offers on ebay.

Second chance scam

The seller may be totally unaware of the scam. I got a scond chance offer from a dealer I know sold the item and did not have another item, and would not have sent a second chance offer. Upon checking, he was suprized, to say the least. Everyone should be aware of this scam.

The coin in the auction, by the way, looks normal to me. A struck clip should be asymetrical around the cut area because the metal squeezes into that space irregularly. The railroad rim is also a good indicator of it being genuine. That's not the problem the second chance offer was the problem.

INXS · August 18, 2005 9:05PM

<< <i>That is the most unsymmetrical clip that I have ever seen. I do not care what Fred says. I wouldn't touch that with a dollar bill. -Dan >>

the clip looks like its photshopped and not very good job either. JMHO.

jdsinva · August 18, 2005 9:30PM

It's not the seller that is trying to scam with a second chance offer. I guarantee if you email the seller in the auction, he/she will know nothing of the second chance offer.

There's nothing wrong with being suspicious of dealings on eBay but make sure you place the suspicion where it needs to be, not on some unsuspecting seller who happen to be selling an expensive coin that didn't meet reserve.

nencoin · August 19, 2005 1:15AM

We get phony second chance offers quite a bit. I usually have a bit of fun with them, and respond that: Yes, I'm very interested in buying the coin at my bid. I'm glad the winning bidder didn't follow through!

They then proceed to give me Western Union information, to which I respond: Payment by check has already been sent.

I keep up the charade for a few days until I can garner as much information from them as possible. I then burst their bubble by telling them something like the following (this is an actual email I sent):

Gabriel,

It's been fun seeing how much information from you we could collect (per request of my local authorities and my local Postmaster). It was obvious from the very first email you sent on 8/11/05 that you were trying to scam me with a bogus 'Second Chance' offer. It's such an old and obvious scam...I would have thought that you criminals would have come up with something new by now.

I have been in touch with the authorities here since last Friday and have provided them with all communication between you and I thus far, including the two addresses I was able to get from you. I am happy to report that the local detective I spoke with here has already made contact with a representative from the constabulary in London as of yesterday morning. Because the scam is so over-played, they have the process rather streamlined when it comes to apprehending the criminals who perpetuate this scam. Yours is the fifth attempt someone has made to scam us with a second-chance offer in the past year. We involved the authorities in the previous four cases, and with one resulting arrest thus far. I am hopeful and optimistic that you will be apprehended shortly.

Chris

I, of course, have never contacted the authorities, as nothing would happen. However, I'm sure it gives some of the losers a minor jolt and probably ruins their weekend until they realize nothing is gonna happen.

bushmaster8 · August 22, 2005 1:23AM

Well, I have determined that the second chance offer is fraudulent.

So, I am going to follow nencoin's lead and play along for a while

.

Here's the letter from the scammer:

Hi Gregory,
> The coin is still available. The total price would be your last bid
> amount, insured shipping included. To start the official transaction
> in a very protected way, please reply with your name and shipping
> address, so I could contact eBay to setup this transaction. As soon as
> I receive your info, I'll start the official procedure, and eBay will
> notify you about this. You'll receive important guidelines and
> instructions from them.
> I need:
> first name:
> last name:
> your address(shipping address):
> city:
> zip:
> Looking forward to your reply.
> Thank you,
> Leny
>
>
> gregory lewis <bushmaster8@earthlink.net> wrote:
> hi leny- yes, I am very interested to get this coin at my price.
> greg
> On Aug 13, 2005, at 4:12 AM, leny w wrote:
>
> > Second Chance Offer -- Buy The Item You Recently Bid On
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Good news! The following eBay item on which you placed a bid is again
> > available for purchase:
> >
> >
> >
> > 1951 Franklin Half with 50% Clip and Partial Collar
> > Item number: 8323108822
> >
> > Your Price :
> > US $1,100.00
> >
> > Don't let this get away!
> >
> > Second Chance Offer
> >
> > The seller, is making this Second Chance Offer because the high
> bidder
> > was either unable to complete the transaction or the seller has a
> > duplicate item for sale.
> >
> > The selling of this item through Second Chance Offer is in compliance
> > with eBay policy and you will be able to exchange Feedback with the
> > seller and will be eligible for all eBay services associated with a
> > transaction, such as fraud protection.
> >
> > eBay does not charge an Insertion Fee to send a Second Chance Offer.
> > Sellers pay only the Final Value Fee when the offer is accepted.
> >
> > Act Now - This Offer Expires Soon
> >
> > To take advantage of this opportunity, please act quickly.
> >
> > To see this item, click on the following page:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/1951-Franklin-Half-with-50-Clip-and-Partial-
> > Collar_W0QQitemZ8323108822QQcategoryZ524QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> >
> > To purchase this item please contact the seller by replying to this
> > email message.
> >
> > To learn more about Second Chance Offer, please visit:
> > http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/second_chance_offer.html
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for using eBay!
> > http://www.ebay.com/
> >
> > Learn More to protect yourself from Spoof (fake) emails.
> >
> > eBay sent this email to you because your Notification Preferences
> > indicate that you want to receive Second Chance Offer Notices. eBay
> > will not request personal data (password, credit card/bank numbers)
> in
> > an email.
> > If you do not wish to receive further communications, log into "My
> > eBay" by clicking on My eBay link found at the top of the eBay home
> > page and change your Notification Preferences. Please note that it
> may
> > take up to 14 days to process your request. Visit our Privacy Policy
> > and User Agreement if you have any questions.
> >
> > Copyright © 2005 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> > Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective
> > owners.
> >
> > eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc.
> >

Gandyjai · August 22, 2005 1:26AM

Good Luck!....Keep us updated.

mercurydimeguy · August 22, 2005 3:47AM

One of my bidders sent me an e-mail that he got a second chance offer on a coin I sold at auction to another collector (this bidder knew me but didn't win the coin) -- I was furious

I wonder how many auctions get marked for a scam (by a would be purp) of which the seller knows nothing about? If this wasn't brought to my attention I would've never known, and then people that received the second chance offer (thinking it was from me) would be thinking that my auction had some kind of a scam running, or something.

With all the technology marvels, why can't eBay do something to prevent certain type of (seemingly) preventable activity?

I get second chance offers on about 25% of all the auctions I bid on, and know they are scams because in most cases I know who the seller is and I know who wound up buying the coin also. Perhaps some of us get on to some kind of list that scammers then use?

777 · August 22, 2005 4:22AM

AVOID second chance offers from coin auctions; unless you personally know the seller; and know where your payment is going?

bushmaster8 · August 22, 2005 5:08AM

<< <i>AVOID second chance offers from coin auctions; unless you personally know the seller; and know where your payment is going? >>

That is probably the best advice. The communications this scammer is using are very authentic looking, chock full of ebay logos, square trade logos, buyer protection guarantees, etc. Everything looks Ebay approved and totally safe... it's pretty convincing!

ttown · August 22, 2005 5:23AM

When I recieve a "Second Chance" offer and I'm interested I go back to the closing auctions page and email the seller for a confirmation. I usually don't consider a second chance offer without Paypal and use of the Credit Card.

AlixTCat · August 22, 2005 6:05AM

eBay has instituted a Messages section for each member. I may be wrong, but I believe ALL communication between sellers and bidders takes place here, even if you get an e-mail sent to your mailbox. Wouldn't a legit SCO appear here as well? If it doesn't, it is not legit. Does anyone know for sure if SCO's show up in the Messages part of My eBay?

Jonathan

AlixTCat · August 22, 2005 6:08AM

I see the seller took their pictures down. This can mean a couple of things...
A. He sold the item to someone.
B. He decided not to sell the item.

Anything else it could mean?

Jonathan

bushmaster8 · August 22, 2005 11:58PM

I have contacted the real seller and was informed that the coin has indeed been sold.

Here is the lastest BS from the scammer. And guess what!? He wants to be paid via Western Union!

You'll have 5 days to inspect the item. In case you don't get what you
are paying for, you'll get a full refund. I'll inform eBay about our
deal. If everything will be ok, they will contact you, and you will
receive the aw-confirm email regarding our deal. You will know all the
details to complete this transaction in safe mode. I'm out of town
because I had an emergency in my family. Within 2 days of payment
confirmation, my wife will ship from Indianapolis. You'll have 5 days
to inspect the item. In case you don't get what you are paying for,
you'll get a full refund. I will receive the payment in London, UK. Let
me know when you receive the the aw-confirm e-mail from eBay, and also
when you'll be able to complete our deal.
Thanks again,
Leny

Gandyjai · August 23, 2005 2:53AM

There you go.....keep stringin' it along and get an address or two!

Very suspicious Ebay activity: ATTENTION Ebay police!

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