comparing 2 mercs grades -- care to guess?

Lahcoin · August 7, 2005 3:00PM

Well, I deceided to bring my kiddies home for some 'family photos' finally. I don't have one of those neat little setups that I've seen discussed here and I've been having a helluva time. I'm already thinking about how to make one
Hopefully the guys at work will set me up(I work in a machine shop).

Anyhoo, I bought these 2 mercs(at different times) on the advice of my dealer a while ago and I am thinking about upgrading them. It seems it's time to upgrade most of my collection as I am finding out there is MUCH better stuff to be had(actually I'm older and have more money now). When I was photographing these I was trying to see how close the grade was to todays standards and if things have changed much. Actually, wearwise, they look as if they both should have the same grade to me. Anyone care to guess the grades? Lil' hint -- one if PCGS and one is ANACS...one has luster and one has mud.

p8nt · August 7, 2005 3:32PM

AU50 and XF45? Total guesses.. I dont usually do Merc's.

LincolnCentMan · August 7, 2005 3:39PM

WHat I think they are:
XF40 and VF35 respectivly.

My thoughts as to what the grading services graded them:
XF45 and XF40

David

fooswolf · August 7, 2005 3:52PM

I just got done grading about 2000 Mercury Dimes that my Dad had collected. Well actually I still have to grade about 300 more 1944 & 1945 Dimes. I'll post about that tomorrow. I am a new and defininely not an expert numismatist and my grading information is from the Photograde book by James Ruddy 1972. Anyhow I would have graded the top coin as a VF-20 because there does not appear to be enough detail in the hair braid and the diagonal lines on the back are not raised significantly, but I could see how someone might grade it as an EF-40. The bottom coin appears to be borderline F-12/VF-20. It depends on how worn the diagonal lines are across the faces. If you think I am being hard on you I will be selling my coins here shortly and that is how I graded them.

I know what you mean when it comes to taking photos that actually show the coins as they are in person. I am also having difficulty in this area.

Dan

fooswolf · August 7, 2005 4:31PM

Is that 1942 Mercury Dime one of those that has the 2/1 in the date. If so wow that's pretty cool, I've seen it in the Red Book but not actual photograph. Also according to the Red Book at VF-20 it is valued at $800 and at EF-40 it is valued at $4000.00.

Dan

construct · August 7, 2005 4:38PM

I think EF and VF respectively. I'm not even going to try to get any more specific than that.

Steve27 · August 7, 2005 8:11PM

EF and EF.

Barndog · August 7, 2005 9:18PM

I just completed an XF+ Mercury Dime set (no varieties, no Proofs) and was very picky about what I considered to be XF (yeah, my fault for literal interpretation of the published ANS grading standards...). I ran into trouble on slabbed coins (the three keys were the only ones I purchased slabbed) with wild assessments of grade. I saw dozens of 21 and 21-D Mercs graded XF-40 that I would have put at VF-30 to VF-35. I would grade the 42/1 as VF-35, but anticipate that all three top TPGs would call it XF-40. I don't like the flatness between the verticals on the reverse and the obverse lacks sufficient detail for me to call in XF. The 21-D is nice, but I think it is also a VF-35. The scratch on the obverse not withstanding, the verticals need more separation (FOR ME) for it to be XF-40. If the 21-D grades at one of the big three TPGs, it could go as high as XF-45, from what I have seen on the market in my searches for XF+ coins.

Thanks for sharing the photos. Your eyes must be hurting after grading so many tiny coins!

dorkkarl · August 7, 2005 11:42PM

1942/1 is cleaned, but i'll guess slabed vf-30.

1921 is scratched, but i'll guess slabed vf-30.

i would downgrade each to vf-20 personally.

K S

Danegeld · August 7, 2005 11:52PM

Hmmm, Rattler and Post Rattler?

mercurydimeguy · August 8, 2005 12:02AM

The grading standards at each firm, especially speaking of Mercs, is different (before, and today). A better comparison would be if they were in the same flavor slab.

I would be comfortable with both dimes in XF-45...one cannot compare the two because the strike on each respective dime is different. The 21-D is typically (somewhat) weakly/flatly struck. The scratch on the 21-D is not a big deal, personally speaking, but they may nock 5 points off for that -- still not a bad dime. Most of the earlier/circ Mercs have been cleaned, so it's not a question of if but rather a question as to what extent. Neither of these dimes is bad looking so (as a Merc collector) I don't have a problem with them.

Grading standards do migrate back and forth. However, it is important to note that their migration is due to the market acceptability of TPG's grading methodology of S (strike), L (luster) and A (eye appeal). It's not that grading standards change, it's that our (collector) perception or acceptability of SLA changes and thus TPG adjust grading accordingly.

DennisH · August 8, 2005 1:11AM

XF40
VF35

Lahcoin · August 8, 2005 2:21AM

Hmmm, Rattler and Post Rattler?

post rattler. Is that what they call OGH? What do they call the yellow label ones--OGH also?

ddbird · August 8, 2005 2:32AM

Yellows are just greens that faded...

Thers rattler (1st generation)
OGH
Present

There are actually a few variations strewn about but thats gernerally the terms people use.

matteproof · August 8, 2005 3:05AM

Hi Lahcoin. Nice Mercs. I would say the first one looks VF35 and the bottom one looks like a Fine15. matteproof

Lahcoin · August 8, 2005 4:06AM

1942/1 is cleaned

Wow....I guess I should be surprised about the cleaning opinions but after I look at the pics it looks like there is residue in the fields of the obverse. I tried taking pictures 3 times with about a dozen of each coin and they still turned out pretty crappy. When I look at the coin I can't see that 'residue' look. Is that what made you guys say cleaned?

The story behind the 1942/1 is that an unsuspecting someone brought in a jar of 'old coins' to a shop I used to frequent. They, the shop, of course bought it up for the price of silver value. Then they searched and found this little gem and sent it out to be graded. Now whether they gave it a quick dip before it was sent out I don't know, but if had been cleaned it probably only got one quick dip. I'm still so green on how to tell if a coin has been dipped once by someone who knows what they are doing. The only way I can tell is if there is a sandy-colored residue-like ick left on the coin by not rinsing correctly(I assume).

<baby rant mode on>
I remember one time I went into that shop and the dealer had some old Morgan in his hand. Then I watched him get a jar of some type of black powdered charcoal/chalk out and rubbed it all over the coin, I guess to bring out the detail in the devices. Maybe this is a regular practice for older coins but for some reason it sickened me. This was a high classed jewerly/coin shop and not some back-alley hustler. I had thought that this place wouldn't do things like that and would want to preserve the natural state. It seems that when I see to much of the games, tricks and cons, I retreat away from collecting for awhile until I 'forget' those things and return years later. Maybe I just need to arm myself with more knowledge and consider THAT part of the hunt also. Am I now being too picky? Do most dealers do that?
<baby rant mode off>

I'll post the real grades either later tonight or tomorrow(I'm very very slow at posting pics)

Lahcoin · August 8, 2005 9:58AM

ok...here's the grades...go figure

mercurydimeguy · August 8, 2005 10:44AM

As I suspected, the bottom one is an EF45 with a 5 point hit because of the scratch, so the assigned grade of EF40 is accurate. The top one must look different in hand or they really missed it on this coin. If it looks nice in hand, I'd be cracking this puppy out more quickly than you can say quick.

Fairlaneman · August 8, 2005 10:59AM

TPG grading certainly is just a opinion. Maybe the pictures shown are way off.

Ken

marcmoish · August 8, 2005 11:54AM

I don't care what the 2nd slab says says I agree with those that said VF20 or VF30 at best.

I agree with the grade on the PCGS good call!

Dan welcome to the boards and nice reading your up to the gazoo in mercury dimes

I suppose Lahcoins and barndog get welcomes too ehh??

many new merc folks here. Now Mike will have many more folks to discuss grades with

Marc

Fairlaneman · August 8, 2005 12:15PM

<< <i>I don't care what the 2nd slab says says I agree with those that said VF20 or VF30 at best.

I agree with the grade on the PCGS good call! >>

I like the call on the 42/1 also. The 21D should be net graded IMO. Probably Net F15. Again, maybe the picture is way off.

Ken

comparing 2 mercs grades -- care to guess?

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