Calling All Morgan Dollar Experts - 8TF Morgan Dollars - A2/A1 Reverse

WWW · August 5, 2005 1:23PM

Should this coin be a designated variety akin to the 7/8 TF? If so, what would you call it? Hooked beak over blunted beak? If not, why?

To me, it's readily apparent that there is one eagle's beak imposed over another. Just like the 7/8 TF (?)

Specifically: Eight Tail Feathers: This type is only on the early 1878 Philadelphia strikes. This is Van Allen-Mallis (VAM) Type A (Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan & Peace Dollars by Leroy C. Van Allen and A. George Mallis), further categorized as A1, with blunted top beak, and A2, with hooked beak. The A2 hub is found only impressed over an A1 hub, Van Allen and Mallis note.
Coin World - 1878 Morgan Dollar Reverse Hub Varieties

A1

A2/A1

Wolf359 · August 5, 2005 1:43PM

Well, yes that's why it's called the A2 reverse type over A1...if that's your question. But there are a dozen or so different A2/A1 types...

Edited to add: Actually only 5, A2/A1a to A2/A1e.

WWW · August 5, 2005 2:01PM

OK... should this coin be included with the major designated varieties? Like the 8TF, 7/8TF, 7TF rev 78 and the 7TF rev 79.

Edited to add: I ask this because there are two different reverse hubs involved in the making of this coin.

Wolf359 · August 5, 2005 2:14PM

Maybe, but the change is not as extreme as the others.

WWW · August 5, 2005 2:18PM

A 7/8 Weak is extreme?

MAD4MORGANS · August 5, 2005 6:48PM

I think where you may be getting hung up on is between the general industry terminology and the the specialized VAM Classification System.

The "major" designated varieties you speak of (8TF, 7/8TF, 7TF rev 78 and the 7TF rev 79) are "generalized" variety categories such as the terms "Weak" and "Strong" (for the 7/8tfs).
---
To better understand the more "specialized" VAM Die Varieties Classification system you should take a close look at Chapter 6 of the VAM Encyclopedia and at the chart on page 139 Chapter 8.

In the VAM Classification System, the A, B, or C, Reverse for the 1878 coins are the MAJOR Reverse Die Variety categories while others (like the A²/A¹ which includes your 8tf doubled beak) are Reverse sub-classifications of these. Page 101 also indicates the A¹ and A² (see note - A²/A¹ ) are minor design types.

So to answer your question...

<< <i>should this coin be included with the major designated varieties? >>

in this VAM Die Classification System the answer would be "no".
---
To try to answer your question...

<< <i>A 7/8 Weak is extreme? >>

"Weak" or "Strong" is a general term some grading companies use to indicate how "exposed" the underlying tail-feather tips show on a 7/8tf. These companies use this general terminology rather than indicate the specific VAM the 7/8tf is.

7/8tf B/* VAM reverses are a sub-classification of B reverses.
---

I hope this helps.

WWW · August 6, 2005 3:34AM

MAD4MORGANS, Thank you for the excellent reply to my questions.

I think it's an interesting VAM and your response helped me understand it better.

Calling All Morgan Dollar Experts - 8TF Morgan Dollars - A2/A1 Reverse

Comments

Leave a Comment