<< <i>Kind of what I was saying. Someone might buy one like this, carefully open it and go slab the coin, take a nice looking 2000-P Sac, slide it in... seal 'er up and BAM! What's even scarier is that if the scammer then sells it and someone else who opens it and tries to slab it and finds out it's a normal Sac, the scammer could claim that's exactly how he/she got it from the original legitimate seller! >>
I agree, but does the grading services requiere the coin to be sent in its original packaging? If they did, I don't think they would return the original packaging. A scammer could not do that then.
edited: Spelling. >>
I think he was suggesting that a scammer buys a legit Cheerios Sac, gets the coin slabbed, then replaces the genuine Sac with a non-Cheerios one and sells it as a Cheerios Sac. The scammer gets to keep the rare coin (now slabbed) and the buyer who assumes there's a rare Sac in the Cheerios holder is screwed. The scammer gets the money AND the coin.
The grading service would not require the original packaging since the coin itself is identifiable as the rare variety.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
They don't really get the money AND the coin since they probably had to pay and arm and a leg to get the real one first. They could break even or make a small profit or loss when reselling the fake though. I'm sure the scammer would be happy with that. Like I said though, they would probably hold on to the coin raw for a while (or maybe sell it discreetly) because he/she would have to look like they just bought it and passed it along. It's too obvious if they have a PCGS Submission for a Cheerios Sac that same week.
Buy the coin, not the cheerios! If it's the real deal, PCGS or NGC could care less if it's in the packaging. Thankfully I'm much too poor to fall into this particular con possibility anyways.
Die Varieties! It's unreal the cummulative knowledge on Lincoln Cent varieties we have here now with you and Bob recently joining! I couldn't be happier!
"I agree, but does the grading services requiere the coin to be sent in its original packaging? If they did, I don't think they would return the original packaging. A scammer could not do that then.
edited: Spelling."
---------------------------------
As far as I know, the grading service does not care about the packaging. They can easily spot the difference between the two Sac. on the reverse. The rare one has raised spines in the wings, while the normal is incuse. I have a friend who sent one in without the packaging and it came back graded and annotated as a pattern. Personally from my viewpoint -- I don't think it's a pattern, but rather a variety.
interesting.....I never seen one in the Cherrios packet, though I remember the promotion from 2000, as I actually bought several boxes of Cherrios in search of one of those pieces, but had no luck (what else is new).
DORAN COINS - On Facebook, Instagram, X (formerly Twitter), & www.dorancoins.net - UPCOMING SHOWS (tentative dates)- 10/8/2023 - Fairfield, IL, 11/5/2023 - Urbana, IL., 12/3/2023 - Mattoon, IL.
<< <i>Cheerios Dollars were selling in the range of $125-$175 when offered, and removing one from it's holder would destroy the value if it turned out to be a common struck-for-circulation coin. >>
<< <i>The only hope of checking the reverse of a Cheerios Dollar, without destroying it's value, was to find one that had been placed into a third party grading service's holder. >>
??? So just because it's a Cheerios dollar that doesn't mean it's a variety from the different hubs ???
Also, if even NGC calls 'em patterns, you gotta expect some of the folks around here to be accidentally calling them patterns as well..
<< <i>FROM NGC'S WEBSITE: "On Monday, June 20, 2005, NGC certified a pattern 2000-P Sacagawea Dollar struck from dies made with experimental hubs. >>
Tough call. To me it would be a variety, as it was monetized and struck from a working die (but I know very little about their true history). 5500 pieces distributed to kids in cereal boxes, 4000 of them spent, maybe more. Fascinating. I'd bet lots of folks will scratch their heads wondering why these unholdered unpromoted novelties fetch more than many early US proof coins with mintages under 1000. They'll point out how irrational the bidders are, because to them, value is paradoxically disconnected from demand. The truth is, lots of coins are like that. The 22 plain is less interesting. JMO That always makes the absolute rarity folks a little crazy, and in this case, they can't even blame the registry (yet).
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i> 5500 pieces distributed to kids in cereal boxes, 4000 of them spent, maybe more. >>
Given that the general public thinks Kennedies, $2 bills, and the like are valuable, I find it hard to believe that 4000+ out of 5500 were spent. Heck most people don't even seem to know what a Sackie is and many people think they are gold. I'm almost willing to believe that a good percentage of these coins found their way to Coin Shops. Maybe the mark sold em for a couple bucks, maybe they kept them. A good media campaign, ala Quarter Mules, ought to bring them out in large numbers.
** It's almost like this late "discovery" was planned. The coming treasure hunt will serve as free publicity for the Sackie. Maybe there will be a massive run on Banks and for a short time maybe people will spend them?
Given that the general public thinks Kennedies, $2 bills, and the like are valuable, I find it hard to believe that 4000+ out of 5500 were spent. Heck most people don't even seem to know what a Sackie is and many people think they are gold. I'm almost willing to believe that a good percentage of these coins found their way to Coin Shops. >>
I doubt it. Almost all of them were probably opened by kids. I hope parents wouldn't be THAT greedy. If you are 5 years old and pull a shiny dollar out of a cereal box... are you going to put it away for investment? ICE CREAM!!! Granted there are numismatists who saved them because of the cool COA and hype and everything but most of them are being circulated as we speak. Not quite enough of em to warrant going through bank rolls or anything thouh.
You would have to be stupid or so rich it doesn't matter in order to justify that kind of price.........that is if you would call yourself an informed collector, even of SAC's.
Cladking and Dheath are right: never make the mistake of disconnecting supply from demand. My tulip comment was in regards to these being a "fad" thing. There are lots of Sac collectors now, but where will all the Sac collectors be fifty years from now? Who knows--maybe they'll be worth even more by then. Fascinating that Cheerios dollars are worth $6k but the 5,000 Goodacre dollars are worth $400-$500 each. I wonder how much they'd be worth if it hadn't been for the burnished coins in the Millennium set--indeed, I wonder if the Mint burnished those coins in response to Ms. Goodacre's marketing...
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
Price keeps going up! Looks to me like there is at least one shill bidder.
NEAT artical on the linky!...Thanks!
I couldn't figure out why they changed the User ID after listing the item... Changed from "joebou23" to "luckybox23" OK,....Cheerios Dollar...."Luck Box".....DUHH.....NOW I get it! I'm kinda slow sometimes...
<< <i>single 2000-P Sacagawea dollar inside every 2,000th box. Some boxes included a voucher redeemable for 100 dollar coins. -- from one of the articles >>
I bet you I got at least 20 boxes of Cheerios - all I found was pennies. I had forgotten about the certificates but now I remember that was why I bought so many of the things.
The sad thing is that there was supposed to be a reverse variation on the Lincoln and I pulled all my Cheerios Pennies off their backing trying to find one of those. So in the end my finds are worth a penny instead of maybe 50 cents each - what a great loss.
<< <i>OK,....Cheerios Dollar...."Luck Box".....DUHH.....NOW I get it! I'm kinda slow sometimes >>
As it turned out none of my boxes were lucky. Seeing the odds ( 1 in 2000 ) I know why that was.
anyone have any questions about the coin or its authenticity - i have been reading your posts and most of what i have read has been full of doubts and sarcasm.
i am now joining this post to clear up any clouds of doubt so feel free to pm me with any questions you may have and you can hear it from the horses mouth instead of your speculation.
I don't recall anyone ever calling the coin in this auction a fake. We were merely discussing the possibilities of someone carefully switching out a special dollar with a normal one and selling it as a Cheerios Sac dollar in original packaging. I have no reason to think THIS one is fake.
If people are pessimistic it's about the price that coin is going for and the future prospects of it's value... not this auction.
I agree with what someone else posted earlier saying the seller is just "testing the water" since the value of this coin is still being determined. Seller sets a ridiculous reserve, sees how high it goes... then relists the coin with a reserve JUST under what it went for the first time. While I don't agree with the shilling that appears (I'm not accusing here) to be going on, the seller's method for determining the market value of this coin doesn't seem "immoral" to me. What do you all think? Is this acceptable or should the seller just have let the coin fly?
here is my take on the o and 1 bidders - - those are not me or anyone i know placing those bids, as soon as i seen that a person with 0 and 1 feedback were bidding i revised my description for serious bidders only -
again and testing the waters is not really what i am doing, i have been in contact with mr briddick and he advised me not to sell for anything under what my reserve is
i am not a coin collector by any means - - i didnt even know that this coin was a big hype until i seen it in the want it now section of ebay. i then seen a picture of it and said to myself that looks very familar. i went to a trunk i had in my attic and fount it - -
so my buying proce was whatever a box of cereal was back in '00 - - 4.00
i dont even want the one i have that is y it is for sale - - if i wanted it i would keep and not sell - and i definitly would not be looking for another one - - I dont collect coins - - no interest to me - - i just got lucky with this one and am looking to sell it off
<< <i>That's good to know, I was gonna offer you one for $50, but since you're not interested I won't waste your time >>
I wouldn't pay 50 bucks for one unless I had some other buyers cash for 100 in my hands. Talk about obscure collectables, I'm sure there will be a big market for Cherrios dollars 20 years from now...........NOT
No reason to drag bulls23 through the muck on this...
He created the auction and seems on the up and up.
As for asking what he would pay for another one, why bother? I haven't looked at things but does he state he is a dealer? If not, why harass him on what he will pay for one? If he lets the market set a price and he sells, then what's the harm as long as it is the actual coin and no other hype. If he sets the reserve too high, then it only hurts him, right? So why attack him for it?
I'd like to have one, but I won't pay north of $50 for one. No way. No how. My son's collection will be devoid of that just like it is devoid of any signed Sac$ aside from the one that GregHansen was kind enough to send as a prize from his contest last year). And, his collection has the MS and PR sac$, so it would be nice to have. But, I am not going to attack someone because they are selling it for a ton (it isn't AT and it isn't tooled). I am not going to try to make a funny by asking a seller how much they will pay for one either.
(edited to take out a name and proposed action that has since been rescinded in a more recent post....was not my intent to post fingers but was following what was already said)
i dont know y there is such animosity about this aution - i found the coin - heard it was rare - - did my research - and put it up on ebay -
please let me know what is wrong with that - - does anyone else have a true value for this coin - - if so let me know as far as i know no one knows what this thing is worth - but i took advice from the peron who i thought knew the most about it and ran with it
coynclecter - - i really dont know what your problem is - is it your animosity, your anger that the coin is up yo so much or your jealousy that you dont have one
me briddick did not contact me on the sac coin, it was on another transaction and i questioned him about it. Also, my reserve was set well before i spoke to mr briddick, all he said is he wouldnt let it go for less than 6000.00
Man, if I'd have gotten one out of the cereal box when they were promoting it, I would've been content with putting an opener of .99 and letting it fly from there. Who would have thought this would fetch this much at auction. DAMMMMMMMMMN! Good luck to the seller.
Tom
What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
Only $50 shy of my original guess of $4000! I'm sure it will go over due to snipers hoping for a $4000 reserve.
I don't think anyone has blatantly attacked this seller or his practices. bulls23: Peope are just smartasses and have a sarcastic comment to say about EVERYTHING, so don't take it personally. There are a lot of people watching your auction because there are a lot of people interested in the value of this coin. Two weeks I was seeing people talking about selling this coin for under $1000, but now that someone is actually selling one on eBay, of course everyone wants to know what it is going for. If people are making comments like "Oh my god" or something... realize we are just all shocked at how high this thing is going. You are being a little oversensitive. For example all I said earlier was "He said not to sell for less than $6000!!" and it was merely a comment. (notice the shocked icon, not the question/confused icon). You don't have to post multiple times answering a question that wasn't posed. Just take a chill pill, laugh at all of us doops watching your coin, and roll around in your bed of cash when its over. I personally don't want one of these coins, but I'm always interested to see trends in prices. Don't worry about what everyone else is saying around here...
Anyways, Im glad for you to have found one of these coins and are now reaping the rewards... awesome!
i do apologize i did come into thsi forum a little sensative and argumentative. i just dont really understand this whole forum thing where people go aroung "expresing their opinions" and being "smartass" it just seems to me like a bunch of people who complain about the things that are going on -
i have done a bunch of buying on ebay, but not much selling - >>
A sniper is someone who bids in the last few seconds of the auction. It's usually with the help of additional software or a web service but some do it manually.
Good luck with your sale. You really hit the jackpot with your lucky box!
-Bob collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens. The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
Snipers are just the folks who wait until the very last second to place their bid so no one has a chance to outbid them. Chances are a couple of your "watchers" will end up being snipers in the end. You can almost count on at least one more bid coming through at the end.
And as for
<< <i>i do apologize i did come into thsi forum a little sensative and argumentative. i just dont really understand this whole forum thing where people go aroung "expresing their opinions" and being "smartass" it just seems to me like a bunch of people who complain about the things that are going on - >>
You can't understand a forum where people go around "expressing opinions". Are you a communist??? Granted, people tend to be a little more aggressive on the internet forums then in real life... but these days being a smartass is half of what expressing an opinion is all about... IMO.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>Kind of what I was saying. Someone might buy one like this, carefully open it and go slab the coin, take a nice looking 2000-P Sac, slide it in... seal 'er up and BAM! What's even scarier is that if the scammer then sells it and someone else who opens it and tries to slab it and finds out it's a normal Sac, the scammer could claim that's exactly how he/she got it from the original legitimate seller! >>
I agree, but does the grading services requiere the coin to be sent in its original packaging? If they did, I don't think they would return the original packaging. A scammer could not do that then.
edited: Spelling. >>
I think he was suggesting that a scammer buys a legit Cheerios Sac, gets the coin slabbed, then replaces the genuine Sac with a non-Cheerios one and sells it as a Cheerios Sac. The scammer gets to keep the rare coin (now slabbed) and the buyer who assumes there's a rare Sac in the Cheerios holder is screwed. The scammer gets the money AND the coin.
The grading service would not require the original packaging since the coin itself is identifiable as the rare variety.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
They don't really get the money AND the coin since they probably had to pay and arm and a leg to get the real one first. They could break even or make a small profit or loss when reselling the fake though. I'm sure the scammer would be happy with that. Like I said though, they would probably hold on to the coin raw for a while (or maybe sell it discreetly) because he/she would have to look like they just bought it and passed it along. It's too obvious if they have a PCGS Submission for a Cheerios Sac that same week.
Buy the coin, not the cheerios!
edited: Spelling."
---------------------------------
As far as I know, the grading service does not care about the packaging. They can easily spot the difference between the two Sac. on the reverse. The rare one has raised spines in the wings, while the normal is incuse. I have a friend who sent one in without the packaging and it came back graded and annotated as a pattern. Personally from my viewpoint -- I don't think it's a pattern, but rather a variety.
<< <i>how will pcgs fit that big cereal box in a slab? >>
If there's a will, then there's a way!
<< <i>The reason I think this particular one is going for so much is because it's a pattern >>
I think the reason is a shill with 0 feedback running up the price. I can't imagine this would be the first coin a new collector would find on Ebay.
LINK
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
<< <i>Here is a link to a good source on these coins.
LINK >>
THANKS A BUNCH-Very Interesting!!!
Now that was a really interesting article. I'm reminded of the 1955 DDO distribution in packs of cigs. Anyone gonna jump on this?
Count me out, I'm too poor for that level of coin action.
<< <i>Cheerios Dollars were selling in the range of $125-$175 when offered, and removing one from it's holder would destroy the value if it turned out to be a common struck-for-circulation coin. >>
<< <i>The only hope of checking the reverse of a Cheerios Dollar, without destroying it's value, was to find one that had been placed into a third party grading service's holder. >>
??? So just because it's a Cheerios dollar that doesn't mean it's a variety from the different hubs ???
Also, if even NGC calls 'em patterns, you gotta expect some of the folks around here to be accidentally calling them patterns as well..
<< <i>FROM NGC'S WEBSITE: "On Monday, June 20, 2005, NGC certified a pattern 2000-P Sacagawea Dollar struck from dies made with experimental hubs. >>
<< <i>it is NOT a pattern >>
I have to agree with that statement.
So what can we call it?
Type 1
Trial Piece
Promotional Pattern
Promotional prototype
Early Production Run
First Production Run
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>
<< <i>it is NOT a pattern >>
I have to agree with that statement.
So what can we call it?
Type 1
Trial Piece
Promotional Pattern
Promotional prototype
Early Production Run
First Production Run
Tough call indeed.
Pattern isn't really right and variety doesn't do it justice. I propose "prototype reverse".
<< <i> 5500 pieces distributed to kids in cereal boxes, 4000 of them spent, maybe more. >>
Given that the general public thinks Kennedies, $2 bills, and the like are valuable, I find it hard to believe that 4000+ out of 5500 were spent. Heck most people don't even seem to know what a Sackie is and many people think they are gold. I'm almost willing to believe that a good percentage of these coins found their way to Coin Shops. Maybe the mark sold em for a couple bucks, maybe they kept them. A good media campaign, ala Quarter Mules, ought to bring them out in large numbers.
** It's almost like this late "discovery" was planned. The coming treasure hunt will serve as free publicity for the Sackie. Maybe there will be a massive run on Banks and for a short time maybe people will spend them?
<< <i>
Given that the general public thinks Kennedies, $2 bills, and the like are valuable, I find it hard to believe that 4000+ out of 5500 were spent. Heck most people don't even seem to know what a Sackie is and many people think they are gold. I'm almost willing to believe that a good percentage of these coins found their way to Coin Shops. >>
I doubt it. Almost all of them were probably opened by kids. I hope parents wouldn't be THAT greedy. If you are 5 years old and pull a shiny dollar out of a cereal box... are you going to put it away for investment? ICE CREAM!!! Granted there are numismatists who saved them because of the cool COA and hype and everything but most of them are being circulated as we speak. Not quite enough of em to warrant going through bank rolls or anything thouh.
You would have to be stupid or so rich it doesn't matter in order to justify that kind of price.........that is if you would call yourself an informed collector, even of SAC's.
<< <i>
So what can we call it?
Type 1
Trial Piece
Promotional Pattern
Promotional prototype
Early Production Run
First Production Run >>
They are being called "Reverse of 1999" for the "pattern" and "Reverse of 2000" for the regular issue coins.
SmallDollars.com
Looks to me like there is at least one shill bidder.
NEAT artical on the linky!...Thanks!
I couldn't figure out why they changed the User ID after listing the item...
Changed from "joebou23" to "luckybox23"
OK,....Cheerios Dollar...."Luck Box".....DUHH.....NOW I get it! I'm kinda slow sometimes...
Happy Hunting!
<< <i>single 2000-P Sacagawea dollar inside every 2,000th box. Some boxes included a voucher redeemable for 100 dollar coins. -- from one of the articles
>>
I bet you I got at least 20 boxes of Cheerios - all I found was pennies. I had forgotten about the certificates but now I remember that was why I bought so many of the things.
The sad thing is that there was supposed to be a reverse variation on the Lincoln and I pulled all my Cheerios Pennies off their backing trying to find one of those. So in the end my finds are worth a penny instead of maybe 50 cents each - what a great loss.
<< <i>OK,....Cheerios Dollar...."Luck Box".....DUHH.....NOW I get it! I'm kinda slow sometimes >>
As it turned out none of my boxes were lucky. Seeing the odds ( 1 in 2000 ) I know why that was.
anyone have any questions about the coin or its authenticity - i have been reading your posts and most of what i have read has been full of doubts and sarcasm.
i am now joining this post to clear up any clouds of doubt so feel free to pm me with any questions you may have and you can hear it from the horses mouth instead of your speculation.
thanks again
luckybox 23
If people are pessimistic it's about the price that coin is going for and the future prospects of it's value... not this auction.
<< <i>He said don't sell for under $6,000!?!
that is correct - - i have an email from him
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
i am not a coin collector by any means - - i didnt even know that this coin was a big hype until i seen it in the want it now section of ebay. i then seen a picture of it and said to myself that looks very familar. i went to a trunk i had in my attic and fount it - -
so my buying proce was whatever a box of cereal was back in '00 - - 4.00
edit: oh, I see.
ONE way Market!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
If I had one I'd be "all seller" and "no buyer" too.
Good luck on maxing out.
<< <i>If I had one I'd be "all seller" and "no buyer" too. >>
That's good to know, I was gonna offer you one for $50, but since you're not interested I won't waste your time
Need more $$$ for coins?
<< <i>That's good to know, I was gonna offer you one for $50, but since you're not interested I won't waste your time >>
I wouldn't pay 50 bucks for one unless I had some other buyers cash for 100 in my hands. Talk about obscure collectables, I'm sure there will be a big market for Cherrios dollars 20 years from now...........NOT
He created the auction and seems on the up and up.
As for asking what he would pay for another one, why bother? I haven't looked at things but does he state he is a dealer? If not, why harass him on what he will pay for one? If he lets the market set a price and he sells, then what's the harm as long as it is the actual coin and no other hype. If he sets the reserve too high, then it only hurts him, right? So why attack him for it?
I'd like to have one, but I won't pay north of $50 for one. No way. No how. My son's collection will be devoid of that just like it is devoid of any signed Sac$ aside from the one that GregHansen was kind enough to send as a prize from his contest last year). And, his collection has the MS and PR sac$, so it would be nice to have.
But, I am not going to attack someone because they are selling it for a ton (it isn't AT and it isn't tooled). I am not going to try to make a funny by asking a seller how much they will pay for one either.
(edited to take out a name and proposed action that has since been rescinded in a more recent post....was not my intent to post fingers but was following what was already said)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
i dont know y there is such animosity about this aution -
i found the coin - heard it was rare - - did my research - and put it up on ebay -
please let me know what is wrong with that - - does anyone else have a true value for this coin - - if so let me know
as far as i know no one knows what this thing is worth - but i took advice from the peron who i thought knew the most about it and ran with it
coynclecter - - i really dont know what your problem is - is it your animosity, your anger that the coin is up yo so much or your jealousy that you dont have one
me briddick did not contact me on the sac coin, it was on another transaction and i questioned him about it. Also, my reserve was set well before i spoke to mr briddick, all he said is he wouldnt let it go for less than 6000.00
Sorry for any confusion,
Tom
I don't think anyone has blatantly attacked this seller or his practices.
bulls23: Peope are just smartasses and have a sarcastic comment to say about EVERYTHING, so don't take it personally. There are a lot of people watching your auction because there are a lot of people interested in the value of this coin. Two weeks I was seeing people talking about selling this coin for under $1000, but now that someone is actually selling one on eBay, of course everyone wants to know what it is going for. If people are making comments like "Oh my god" or something... realize we are just all shocked at how high this thing is going. You are being a little oversensitive. For example all I said earlier was "He said not to sell for less than $6000!!
Anyways, Im glad for you to have found one of these coins and are now reaping the rewards... awesome!
i do apologize i did come into thsi forum a little sensative and argumentative. i just dont really understand this whole forum thing where people go aroung "expresing their opinions" and being "smartass" it just seems to me like a bunch of people who complain about the things that are going on -
again i am new to this whole thing
i have done a bunch of buying on ebay, but not much selling -
<< <i>awhat does a "sniper mean"
again i am new to this whole thing
i have done a bunch of buying on ebay, but not much selling - >>
A sniper is someone who bids in the last few seconds of the auction. It's usually with the help of additional software or a web service but some do it manually.
Good luck with your sale. You really hit the jackpot with your lucky box!
collections: Maryland related coins & exonumia, 7070 Type set, and Video Arcade Tokens.
The Low Budget Y2K Registry Set
And as for
<< <i>i do apologize i did come into thsi forum a little sensative and argumentative. i just dont really understand this whole forum thing where people go aroung "expresing their opinions" and being "smartass" it just seems to me like a bunch of people who complain about the things that are going on - >>
You can't understand a forum where people go around "expressing opinions". Are you a communist??? Granted, people tend to be a little more aggressive on the internet forums then in real life... but these days being a smartass is half of what expressing an opinion is all about... IMO.