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Question about a certain grade.
jsnruf
Posts: 89
Hello, I have recently started up collecting U.S. coins and other forms of currency. I have only been active in the hobby for a few months now, so many things are still unclear to me.
Anyway, while I generally understand how some coins are graded, there is still one thing I have not quite figured out yet. What, exactly, does it take for a coin to be graded as a "cameo"? What makes these coins appear to be darker than other grades? Also, why is it that not all Proof coins are cameos? Are these coins simply scarce, in high demand, or flat-out overvalued?
Hopefully my question didn't seem painfully obvious to you, and that I posted this question in its proper forum.
Thank you.
Anyway, while I generally understand how some coins are graded, there is still one thing I have not quite figured out yet. What, exactly, does it take for a coin to be graded as a "cameo"? What makes these coins appear to be darker than other grades? Also, why is it that not all Proof coins are cameos? Are these coins simply scarce, in high demand, or flat-out overvalued?
Hopefully my question didn't seem painfully obvious to you, and that I posted this question in its proper forum.
Thank you.
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The flat surface area of the coin is refered to as "fields" and the raised area, the date, portrait, letters are called "devices"
The minting process of proof coins, which are double struck using highly polished dies, leaves a white "frost" on the devices.
When the fields have a mirror like surface and there is contrast between the fields and the frost on the devices, the coin is given a Cameo designation. When the contrast is more intense, with highly frosted devices and deep mirror fields it is given a Deep Cameo or Ultra Cameo (NGC) designation.
Prior to 1973, the Mint didn't really care what they were doing and didn't keep the dies polished, so only the new dies produced Deep Cameo proofs.
Today all modern proofs are deep cameos, but there are cameos prior to 1973 (even though I can't find any)
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since 8/1/6
Russ, NCNE
Hehe. Just kidding. Welcome. Russ should be along shortly.
You have asked for a mouthful but that's ok. When I was new I was confused as heck as to what a cameo was.
Anyway, when it comes to determining what proof is a cameo, that will only become clear with experience. Read these boards and past threads and look for threads particularly from Madmarty, Russ and Dheath. I would sa y the easiest thing to do would be to buy a 1964 proof set (very cheap probably about $8) and a 1980's proof set (also cheap $6). You will be able to see the difference almost automatically. One is frosty and one is shiny.
As to your question whether they are all valuable, some are and some arent. It depends on the coin and the year. Experience will teach you that. Though generally any pre 1968 cameos/deep cameos are worth more. Some are just amazingly tough to find (such as a 1965 SMS Deep Cameo Lincoln cent) and others are more common (1964 kennedy halves). Prices vary greatly and both NGC, PCGS, and ANACS have different standards so it's best to take a look at a variety of examples.
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Russ will have better pics, but here are two quick ones to show the difference:
Regular proof:
Deep Cameo proof:
A cameo proof would be between the two.
Hope this helps...Mike
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
MikeInFl says it pretty eloquently. Various techniques have been employed over the years
to impart the "roughness" to the dies which cause cameo and this has worn off the dies at
variable rates. When it's worn smooth the die strikes regular brilliant proofs rather than cam-
eos. Some dies are sandblasted to achieve this effect and some have been resandblasted
after it wore off. Not all proof and SMS dies get this preparation to start with so for some dates
it is quite scarce. Prices can be high because not only do collectors value this look but it is as-
sociated with new dies and collectors also treasure the sharp and complete detail which often
accompanies new dies.
Modern dies are etched with acid and then chrome plated to retain their capacity to strike such
cameos.