Options
"All coins are low-end widgets until proven otherwise..."
RYK
Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
or "How much do care about sellers' descriptions?"
This an offshoot from another thread.. Let me start by saying that I assume that all coins in dealer inventories are low-end widgets. It is up to the seller to tell me why this coin is better than others of the same year/denomination/grade.
Examples:
a. 1857-D $5 PCGS XF-40
b. 1857-D PCGS XF-40. A delightfully original example that is unusually well-struck with a paucity of marks and superior eye appeal for the grade. Far better than the XF-45 which sold at the Heritage Long Beach sale.
Which coin are you going to make an inquiry?
This an offshoot from another thread.. Let me start by saying that I assume that all coins in dealer inventories are low-end widgets. It is up to the seller to tell me why this coin is better than others of the same year/denomination/grade.
Examples:
a. 1857-D $5 PCGS XF-40
b. 1857-D PCGS XF-40. A delightfully original example that is unusually well-struck with a paucity of marks and superior eye appeal for the grade. Far better than the XF-45 which sold at the Heritage Long Beach sale.
Which coin are you going to make an inquiry?
0
Comments
42/92
Ben
What's the pricing?
What I would like to point out is that it is to easy to fall into the trap that others' concerns are the same as yours. We all buy and sell coins for our reasons and our reasons alone. Sometimes those reasons overlap but at other times they are very different.
If you make the assumption that all buyers and sellers "should" behave a certain way and or have the same concerns as you, you will probably wind up being frustrated and/or disappointed.
Joe. IMO
The first seller is offering up a faceless coin. Either the coin is not so hot or the seller does not have the time, knowledge, or interest in making the coin attractive to a discerning buyer. Okay for the slab hunter and widget collector, though.
The second seller knows the market for the coin, how it compares to others, and lets you know why he/she thinks it's better than those that are ostensibly similar.
The problem with the second is that EVERY coin in the dealer's inventory tends to have a description like that. When every coin in every dealer's inventory is "exceptional" it tends to make you skeptical.
The discerning buyer knows how to read betwen the lines. Remember, I asked you which coin you were going to inquire on, not necessarily order. The inventory listing should be a starting point for your investigation, not the ending point.
Edited to add:
If the price is the same I think it's a no brainier as long as it's in a good TPG holder. Of course promoting a coin and dealer attitude would play a role also. There dealer I'd go to get a feel for the price of a coin if offered but would never buy a coin from in a million years
This is a very interesting statement especially when you take into consideration some recent threads.
What I would say is that as a buyer or a seller, you have to think about what the other party said not only by your standards which may blind you from seeing what is really being said by the other party. If you think of everything in terms of the way you think it "should" be done, you may find yourself in very many disagreements.
Joe.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
a. 1881-S Morgan PCGS-65
b. 1881-S Morgan PCGS-65. Delightful, rainbow toning and very nice for the grade.
Same price
?
Who says it is hype? It is at the very least opinion, and quite possibly fact.
This is a very interesting statement especially when you take into consideration some recent threads.
I am talking about buying coins from reputable dealers with return priviliges. I am not talking about buying coins from questionable or unknown sellers on ebay.
Ben
a. 1881-S Morgan PCGS-65
b. 1881-S Morgan PCGS-65. Delightful, rainbow toning and very nice for the grade.
Same price
?
Given this additional info as well as: I am talking about buying coins from reputable dealers with return priviliges, I would purchase coin b. without hesitation.
Joe.
But to some they are
In RYK's example, if I was looking for a 1881-S Morgan PCGS-65 (yes, believe it or not, some people buy the slab and not the coin) and I came across the first coin advertised for a price I was willing to pay, I would buy coin a.. If however I came across both ads, then I would buy coin b. because of the extra description.
Joe.
True. Picture quality varies widely. Pictures can be made to emphasize and de-emphasize certain coin qualities. I think that they are great for demonstrating the difference between a blast white Morgan and a rainbow-toned Morgan. They are less great at demonstrating the difference between original and unoriginal MS coins and especially circulated gold.
Is either of the coins listed with a quality pic?
KJ
Such a thing, anywhere in the spectrum of XF40, comparable at whatever level to the one that sold in whosamabob's recent sale, is a sufficiently uncommon thing on the market as to warrant inspection on its own merits if that is the sort of coin you've got in your sights.
To summarize, the description might draw my attention, but I would not necessarily breeze on by, simply on account of the lack of one.
<< <i>Coins are not fungible; thus, they cannot be called widgets (every coin is different). >>
I'm glad someone said it. No two coins are alike even if they have the same date, MM, grade, slab, etc.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If that's the case, then no one should have any problem or gripes with any description given by anyone anywhere. The standard has been set.
Joe IMO
Who knows one just might let you "Cherry Pick" all the proof and mint sets behind the counter......
Without a doubt I would investiagate the second coin. Here's why...
The dealer tell me it is 1)original, 2) well-struck, 3) a small amount of marks, 4)has superior eye appeal, and 5)gives me a pricing comparison with the Heritage sale number.
This is exactly what I would want to know and this dealer has gone to the effort to give me a picture of the coin before I even see it. I would certainly not buy without seeing the coin or have a proper return policy, but this dealer brought this coin to my attention. It's my job to make sure it measures up.
There is absolutely no information imparted by the first description.
I totally agree with this statement. I once bought an MS65 common date morgan from a prominent national dealer who has a very large assortment of Morgans. It was hyped to the max. It was okay looking, but had very heavy die polish on the reverse, which wasn't noted, and which I didn't find attractive. After that I really noticed that all of his coins were basically described the same: "PQ+++," High end for the grade," "A real gem," blah, blah, blah. I kept the Morgan, but I've never bought another coin from him.
Cartwheel
Cartwheel's Showcase Coins
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
One mans Widget is another mans treasure.
roadrunner
<< <i> Considering all dealers, I would concur that the majority of slabbed coins held, are in fact lower end. The nicer ones are in strong hands. >>
If this is true, it means those of us purchasing now are mostly buying the "dregs" of the coins, the top end, PQ coins being unavailable.
If this is true, it is a depressing thought.
I would concur that the majority of slabbed coins held, are in fact lower end. The nicer ones are in strong hands
This kind of statement snubs many collectors of modest means.... there are lots of nice coins out there, not just ones that cost 6 or 7 figures and that are in strong hands....
I agree with RYK, that modern dealers need to learn how to describe and sell their coins more effectively. Seasoned collectors usually have strong criteria for things they want to buy- and every coin deserves its own unique description......
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Considering all dealers, I would concur that the majority of slabbed coins held, are in fact lower end. The nicer ones are in strong hands.
roadrunner >>
I say that's right to an extent but from what I've seen these coins wouldn't be priced the same. The dealer of the PQ coin is going to charge more knowing what he has.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>I'm actually a fan of widgets-- I'll include most modern coins (Proof sets, mint sets, PCGS Roosies) in that catagory. "Wannabe" dealers like me can buy and sell them all day without much hassle. A 2003 silver proof set is a 2003 silver proof set pretty much no matter who you buy them from. They're all with blasting deep cameos with a shot a PR70. The only return I've ever gotten was on a non-widget coin. >>
Very good synpsis! Those 1999 Silver Proof Sets are the greatest widget of all. I wish I had bought more than one set.