Toned IHCs...is it just me?

Bochiman · June 25, 2005 2:08PM

I am finding that I like a lot of the toned IHCs. They look cool!
Much cooler than lincolns (from the toning perspective....not talking about artistry).

Why is that? Copper cent is copper cent, right? I don't think it is the extra 10-20 years (I could be wrong....I've been wrong once before

).

Also, I am noticing many of them, that I see, are in NGC holders (I don't go out of my way for PCI, etc, so I don't know if they exist there as well).
Are the PCGS ones more likely to not come up for public sale? Is it because NGC was/is easier on the grade so they get submitted there?

Whatever it is, I like them and want a few more (with the vibrant green/blue). I just don't like to pay a lot

TomB · June 25, 2005 2:28PM

I presume you are writing about proof IHCs. If so, then you really have an approximately thirty year gap between the two series as the early Lincolns were matte proofs and not brilliant proofs. As for the toning, many of the IHCs were from the Prosky-Raymond hoard and this pre-dated the Lincoln cent brilliant proofs.

Bochiman · June 25, 2005 2:48PM

Actually Tom, I am talking about both PR and MS.
I say a MrD one recently that looks cool and it is in a NGC holder. Yes, it is 30+ years older than the closest Lincoln, but still, it is amazing. And, it is MS, not PR.

Bochiman · June 26, 2005 6:18AM

TTT to see if there are more opinions on this.

shylock · June 26, 2005 6:44AM

It's not just you, especially when it comes to IH proofs. I wish I was buying them when they were selling for standard BN & RB prices. Their popularity has finally caught fire over the past few years. Long after monster toned silver realized off the sheet bids, equivalent Indian Head proofs were largely ignored. My guess is the change finally came for two reasons. 1) Copper proof collectors are more traditional in nature and very set in their ways, with original RD always being the ultimate goal. Some new blood saw differently. 2) Some of the monster toned silver collectors crossed into the monster toned IH proof market. They knew a great bargain when they saw it.

Nicely toned original business strike Indian cents are much harder to come by. Their beauty is more subtle than their proof counterparts due to the nature of their strike and the way they were issued/stored. And their originality is more scrutinized. The MS collector base is even more set in their ways than the proof collectors so these can still be found for reasonable prices. One caveat: don't trust all the toned IH's you see in older NGC plastic (see my last paragraph). That's not to say some great old NGC toners don't exist, just develop a feel for them before buying.

Also, I am noticing many of them, that I see, are in NGC holders (I don't go out of my way for PCI, etc, so I don't know if they exist there as well). Are the PCGS ones more likely to not come up for public sale? Is it because NGC was/is easier on the grade so they get submitted there?

Not so much "easier on the grade" as less likely to bodybag. Rick Snow writes about the
Prosky hoard of proof IHs (that Tom mentions) in a great article on his site. It took the services a while to appreciate their originality. It likely took PCGS a little longer. As for MS IH's, NGC didn't guaranty copper until recently so were much less paranoid about unusual toning through the years. For better or worse, NGC has encapsulated a lot more toned Indian cent business strikes.

mgoodm3 · June 26, 2005 7:40AM

I think that most know of my opinion of toned copper already. I also love matte proofs. they tone beautifully.

RedneckHB · June 26, 2005 11:35AM

Toned proof IHC's are evil. Do not collect those hideous looking things. At least until I have about 100 or so.

This one is in PCGS plastic.

kryptonitecomics · June 26, 2005 11:47AM

I just recently got into them and it seems like every where I look others are buying them up as well. I would say the market is pretty hot right now and about half the specimens I own are in PCGS plastic and the other half...NGC. I think it certainly much easier to image them in PCGS holders as they seem to get lost in the middle of the NGC plastic insert a lot of times.

I think just like a lot of coins right now....PCGS is being real tough on Proof IHC's so some folks are chosing to go to NGC with their coins.....I don't think it's like that across the board...but that has been my experience as I have a nice coin that was in a NGC P66RB holder and it now reside in a PCGS PR65 holder. Honestly if any Proof IHC specialist saw the coin......they would know that NGC had it right the first time...but heck the plastic isn't really the important thing anyway....the coin is all that matters.

Here is a PCGS Strawberry Princess:

1909 PR65 RB

BWRC · June 26, 2005 2:38PM

Nice post Paul!

From a dealer perspective I can say that the interest in toned Proof IHC's is spreading. Recently, I had another dealer pay my full retail to get a few of these beauties I was packing at a recent show and it wasn't EERC. So more dealers are trying to get their hands on these stunning coins.

I have a few toned Morgan Dollars collectors that have added toned Proof IHC's to their holdings and are asking me for more. As more collectors get into this market and with these nice toners in short supply prices should head up accordingly.

The coins are available in NGC or PCGS holders. I know a collector who has put together a nice selection of these gems over the years and the majority of his coins are PCGS graded. Most of my current stock is PCGS graded also.

oldcameoproofsguy · June 26, 2005 11:38PM

<< <i>Whatever it is, I like them and want a few more (with the vibrant green/blue). I just don't like to pay a lot >>

Actually, I think dealers let these coins go for pretty cheap. Almost everyone will pay the big bucks for RD proofs and moon money for RD CAMs. Collectors tend to ignore the RB and BN coins even with great toning. Even outrageously toned IHC proofs go for pretty cheap (under sheet) in most cases.

There may be a turnaround soon though. From the tone of the boards it looks like many more collectors are taking an interest, myself included. Plus it's not easy finding a Proof IHC with really great toning! Collectors and dealers alike will figure this out and start jacking the prices.

NGC PR65 BN

IrishMike · June 26, 2005 11:50PM

One of the nice things about beautifully toned IHC cents is that even in grades of 63 and 64 RB they can look spectacular thus affordable for the average "joe" collector.

Toned IHCs...is it just me?

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