A quick business lesson for a couple 'real' dealers...

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 4:48AM

Coming from someone in a industry that makes even the largest dealers in the coin industry look like kids playing with schoolyard money...

If you present yourself as a public figurehead of an organization, and you choose to attend trade shows and conferences and you choose to make yourself available on the floor of said shows (Which isn't exactly always a great idea), then you really shouldn't choose to blow off potential customers who just want to give you a pleasant Hello and a handshake and spend 30 seconds with the 'small talk'.

Just an observation from what I saw (and heard from fellow collectors) at Long Beach for the whole of 4 hours I was in attendance.

Edit: And yes, I said 'blow off', being too busy to interact with them due to other interactions at the time is understandable, blatantly blowing a person off is not. If you don't want to interact with people, remove yourself from the show floor.

DUIGUY · June 9, 2005 5:34AM

Perhaps it is the hot weather? Lots of people seem to be on edge lately.

KollectorKing · June 9, 2005 5:53AM

speaking of biz lesson for a couple of "real" dealers...how about this...

1. On May 12th, after visiting his web site and saw 5 coins (app. $1,000) that I wanted to buy, I sent an email to a highly visable board member located in one of the western 12 states whether they were available.

2. On May 16th, after not getting any response, I forwarded the original email to him as a reminder.

3. As of today, June 9th, I've yet to hear from this highly visible dealer who is a board member and who attends all major shows including Long Beach.

mrearlygold · June 9, 2005 5:57AM

KollectorKing, why didn't you just call him on the telephone?

Without seeing your email I can't comment on how I would have handled whatever it is you wrote but I can tell you this much, I get no less than a couple dozen email inquires a day and the vast majority of them get deleted.

I maybe hang up on or very quickly terminate a much smaller percentage of telephone calls.

Tom

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 6:00AM

<< speaking of biz lesson for a couple of "real" dealers...how about this...

1. On May 12th, after visiting his web site and saw 5 coins (app. $1,000) that I wanted to buy, I sent an email to a highly visable board member located in one of the western 12 states whether they were available.

2. On May 16th, after not getting any response, I forwarded the original email to him as a reminder.

3. As of today, June 9th, I've yet to hear from this highly visible dealer who is a board member and who attends all major shows including Long Beach.

>>

Perhaps his email address listed was out of date?

KollectorKing · June 9, 2005 6:00AM

Here is the email I sent (X'ing out the confidential information):

Hi XXX -

I'm interested in the follow Lincolns and was wondering if they're still available:

1910-S MS-64RB $xxx See image
99% RED. Beautiful with flashy luster.
1912-D MS-63RB $xxx See image
90% RED. Deeper red, even color. full strike. early die state.
1913-D MS-64RB $xxx See image
95% RED. Full strike and early die state.
1915 MS-64RB PCGS $xxx See image
90% RED. Full strike.
1915-D MS-63RB $xxx See image
99% RED. Full strike. Early die state.

If any or all are still available can I reserve them, and do you accept credit cards for payment?

Thanks,
XXX

KollectorKing · June 9, 2005 6:03AM

"Perhaps his email address listed was out of date?"

Hardly, he posts here regularly and his email address and web site are clearly shown. And furtermore he was signed on this forum during the period in question, ie May 12th to May 16th.

Longacre · June 9, 2005 6:04AM

I agree that a quick phone call would have been better. When I am really interested in a coin, I make sure I call the dealer. If I am just checking on the status of something in stock, I may send an email, but I don't get too bent out of shape if it takes a day or two to get a response.

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 6:05AM

<< Here we go, lets pick on the dealers.......

Did any ever think some times dealers do shows so they can service people who can't get to them (the shows)???? And heaven forbid, someone might be in the middle of a transaction or deal when a colelctor walks up.

And did any here ever think that maybe, just maybe collectors can be rude too???? I agree, that the evil dealerrs should just drop everything they are doing say hi to everyone

Amazing concept, but it is a fact I've learned from these boards: all big dealers are RUDE and CRUDE!!!!

I'll just start shopping with the wannabes who blow gas up balloons and totally rip people off. Yeah, that beats dealing with someone knowledgeable.

It must be the summer heat. >>

Are you saying that it's excusable, in your eyes, for the figurehead of an organization to be rude (Not busy or preoccupied, but blatantly rude and unsociable) to their client base during a public function?

relayer · June 9, 2005 6:07AM

Coinhusker1 · June 9, 2005 6:14AM

<< "Perhaps his email address listed was out of date?"

Hardly, he posts here regularly and his email address and web site are clearly shown. And furtermore he was signed on this forum during the period in question, ie May 12th to May 16th. >>

Did you try a PM on the message board? If it is that important to you, it helps to "cover your bases", and a PM and a phone call would help do that. It is possible the e-mails did not get through for whatever reason (wrong address, server problem, etc.)

TonedPeaceNut · June 9, 2005 6:14AM

I'm a collector, I do a couple of Ebay sales of extra coins, nothing more. And 3 times a year I get the pleasure of sitting behind a dealer's table for a couple of hours each day at a major show. To be honest with you, it's tiring, very tiring. Doing a show over a period of 3 days is no easy feat. Its draining. There's alot to do. Not only do you have to try to sell to the public, you have to try to buy from other dealers, find a minute or two to walk the show, sit and try to buy from vest-pockets and sell to other dealers all before the good coins are gone or the other dealer's money has dried up and they're not buying.

Before someone condemns a dealer, try being one. Think of all the dealers that travel all over the country doing 30 shows a year.

While I'm not excusing rude behavior, I do understand how some collectors can get the "blow-off." While sitting behind the table babysittin the inventory, I had a nice older gentleman walk up and try to convince me I should buy his circulated raw 1895 Morgan. He swore it was real and it hadnt been altered. He said he couldnt see any alteration even with a microscope. I could easily see where the mintmark had been removed. It was shiny. I was polite in my refusal, but he managed to hang around for another 20 minutes trying to convince me I was wrong.

I'm sure he's not the norm, but if I had to deal with 1 of him and hour over 3 days, I might get a little testy as well.

So at least now I have a better understanding of what a dealer's day at a show is like.

On the otherhand, it can be really fun to see someone walk up with some really killer coins!

TPN

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 6:17AM

<< Absolutely no-no one should be rude. But you'd be amazed at how people expect things they don't deserve, or are rude to us and then we have to defend.

Bascially what I'm saying is-you all here are so quick to call us dealers rude-ever think collectors can be too???????

Maybe I'll select some from the boards to just sit and observe the behavior we see from collectors at a major show.

Its funny, ONLY the people here cry about dealers dissing them. I don't hear from others: well so and so didn't say hello

>>

Doesn't really put me out any, just stating fact. And I'm glad that you agree that no organizational figurehead who chooses to present themselves in a public venue should be rude to potential customers who are just trying to be polite and say Hi (Though they should even be polite to the people who are rude to them and smile and nod instead of even bother trying to defend themselves to such people). I heard this from quite a few Non-Board Member collector friends I ran into at the show, I was actually sort of surprised to hear them openly complaining about such things, so I'm guessing it must have been pretty blatantly 'bad' in a couple cases at Long Beach. Oh well, live and learn.

Fairlaneman · June 9, 2005 6:22AM

<< Maybe I'll select some from the boards to just sit and observe the behavior we see from collectors at a major show. >>

ME PLEASE... and I will do it for less than a Jelly Donut.

Ken

Russ · June 9, 2005 6:26AM

There's one dealer on the circuit here who is, to put it mildly, a rude dickhead. Clankeye knows who I'm talking about. At every show, I go out of my way to bug him about something trivial.

Russ, NCNE

Bear · June 9, 2005 6:30AM

Well, at least bears are never rude.

Longacre · June 9, 2005 6:34AM

<< 

Maybe I'll select some from the boards to just sit and observe the behavior we see from collectors at a major show.

; >>

Maybe I will take you up on that offer. Will you be at the NY Invitational?

AgMe · June 9, 2005 6:35AM

<< There's one dealer on the circuit here who is, to put it mildly, a rude dickhead. Clankeye knows who I'm talking about. At every show, I go out of my way to bug him about something trivial.

Russ, NCNE >>

Don't pull punches Russ.

I know about 1/2 way through a show I need an energy bar!

~g

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 6:37AM

<< << If you don't want to interact with people, remove yourself from the show floor. >>

Douglas, what did you do to try to interact and what did the dealer(s) do? Thanks >>

Oh, I just walked up, was perusing some of their showcase items (Realize that I had seven figures worth of descretionary funds available at the show, I wasn't just 'window shopping'), saw said dealer standing there staring at me, I said "Hi!" with a smile and they just nodded and raised their eyebrows. I then proceeded to ask the price on what was bound to be a middle five figure piece and the dealer just looking at me, smirked, shook their head slightly, and quoted the price fairly sarcasticly and then just walked away and out of their booth, without even passing me over to the other sales person that was manning the booth or saying goodbye, even though I was making eye contact the entire time and actually contemplating the purchase (It's not like I expressed sticker shock even, I was actually quite happy with the price). Needless to say, I politely thanked the other sales person and went about my way and found a couple nice late 18th century US coinage to spend my money on elsewhere.

Granted, due to my full sleeve tattoos being visable on both arms when I'm not in a suit and the fact that I was wearing a plain black t-shirt (Hey, at least it was a $50 one) and jeans, I may come across as someone a bit 'unconventional' or look out of place, but making assumptions like that is just flat-out bad business.

Anyways, it wasn't so much my individual encounter as it was the encounters I heard a couple of my 'buddies' (Who are all in Real Estate Development down here in SoCal, surprisingly) that I see at shows here telling me about. These are not people who would generally complain at all or even care, but for some reason they did this time.

JrGMan2004 · June 9, 2005 6:38AM

<< There's one dealer on the circuit here who is, to put it mildly, a rude dickhead. Clankeye knows who I'm talking about. At every show, I go out of my way to bug him about something trivial.

Russ, NCNE >>

OOOOooooooo! Roy would LOVE you

Hey Russ... anyway I can get you to come here for a show just to pester the hell out of an idiot?

Longacre · June 9, 2005 6:42AM

Maybe I'm too good natured or I just roll with the punches, but I've never taken it to heart when someone is a little rude (if that was what happened). I sometimes am short with people at work when I am in the middle of doing 100 things, too.

mgoodm3 · June 9, 2005 6:42AM

<< Here is the email I sent (X'ing out the confidential information):

Hi XXX -

I'm interested in the follow Lincolns and was wondering if they're still available:

1910-S MS-64RB $xxx See image
99% RED. Beautiful with flashy luster.
1912-D MS-63RB $xxx See image
90% RED. Deeper red, even color. full strike. early die state.
1913-D MS-64RB $xxx See image
95% RED. Full strike and early die state.
1915 MS-64RB PCGS $xxx See image
90% RED. Full strike.
1915-D MS-63RB $xxx See image
99% RED. Full strike. Early die state.

If any or all are still available can I reserve them, and do you accept credit cards for payment?

Thanks,
XXX >>

Could this possibly be the dealer that was in the hospital for 2 and 3rd degree burns? I know he was selling some lincolns such as that.

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 6:43AM

The real point is, it seems that a few of the higher end dealers seem to be forgetting the principles of good old fashioned salesmenship these days and seem to be getting too wrapped up in their own egos. There are a still a lot of gems, though, so all is well.

jbsteven · June 9, 2005 6:50AM

<< 

<< << If you don't want to interact with people, remove yourself from the show floor. >>

Douglas, what did you do to try to interact and what did the dealer(s) do? Thanks >>

Oh, I just walked up, was perusing some of their showcase items (Realize that I had seven figures worth of descretionary funds available at the show, I wasn't just 'window shopping'), saw said dealer standing there staring at me, I said "Hi!" with a smile and they just nodded and raised their eyebrows. I then proceeded to ask the price on what was bound to be a middle five figure piece and the dealer just looking at me, smirked, shook their head slightly, and quoted the price fairly sarcasticly and then just walked away and out of their booth, without even passing me over to the other sales person that was manning the booth or saying goodbye, even though I was making eye contact the entire time and actually contemplating the purchase (It's not like I expressed sticker shock even, I was actually quite happy with the price). Needless to say, I politely thanked the other sales person and went about my way and found a couple nice late 18th century US coinage to spend my money on elsewhere.

Granted, due to my full sleeve tattoos being visable on both arms when I'm not in a suit and the fact that I was wearing a plain black t-shirt (Hey, at least it was a $50 one) and jeans, I may come across as someone a bit 'unconventional' or look out of place, but making assumptions like that is just flat-out bad business.

Anyways, it wasn't so much my individual encounter as it was the encounters I heard a couple of my 'buddies' (Who are all in Real Estate Development down here in SoCal, surprisingly) that I see at shows here telling me about. These are not people who would generally complain at all or even care, but for some reason they did this time. >>

thiggy:

I can relate to the out of place thing a little. When I started going to shows I would get ignored a little (young looking with a mullet). I found that buying higher priced coins from someone changes the way they act towards you.

try it: buy a high priced coin from them. come back the next time you see them at another show and I bet they will act differently to you. It is like breaking the ice.

Russ · June 9, 2005 6:55AM

<< (Realize that I had seven figures worth of descretionary funds available at the show, I wasn't just 'window shopping') >>

You had a million dollars with you?

Russ, NCNE

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 6:57AM

<< 

<< (Realize that I had seven figures worth of descretionary funds available at the show, I wasn't just 'window shopping') >>

You had a million dollars with you?

Russ, NCNE >>

I had a checkbook, an American Express card, and about a thousand dollars in cash. (Not that it really matters at all, I was just stating the funds I had available if I found what I was looking for. In the end, I don't see the price of goods as an issue in this circumstance; hell, the coins I love the most have holes in them and have no 'true', definable market value. The issue was the general behavior of this organizational figurehead.)

jbsteven · June 9, 2005 6:58AM

I am curious to know if you had a million bucks to spend as well.

techeff · June 9, 2005 7:03AM

You found a holed coin worth a million bucks?

DUIGUY · June 9, 2005 7:04AM

My opinion is the dealer put more emphasis on your tattoos then the buldge in your pocket. You fnow the
saying, Judge a book by it`s cover ?

dthigpen · June 9, 2005 7:06AM

<< You found a holed coin worth a million bucks?

>>

I'm not exactly that reckless, and the monetary value involved was really a moot point and should have been left out anyways. I wasn't perusing holed coins at Long Beach. Coin collecting is a hobby for me, not an investment, and while I do have a couple higher end pieces in the safe deposit box, the majority of my joy comes in 'odd' coins with a lot of history in them.

techeff · June 9, 2005 7:19AM

I wasn't perusing holed coins at Long Beach.

I kinda figured that.

AlaBill · June 9, 2005 9:01AM

Thanks rays for the recommendations on the dealers. I'm getting back in after being out 15 years and it helps to know info like this form people who have relationships.

mozin · June 9, 2005 10:04AM

I like to think I am a sensitive guy, who retired about 8 years ago, so my age is certainly a factor. Over the past 15 years I have attended a number of major coin shows throughout the USA. There are some dealers that remember me even if I have not purchased anything from them, and they are always very cordial. This makes me feel like seriously perusing their stock for purchase.

There are also about the same number of dealers that travel the USA shows regularly and they are always the same AZZ-holes no matter where I see them, big egos and only looking for the big kill. I have no tattoos, am clean-shaven, wear clean proper sports wear, wear shoes, don't drool, and I am very polite. I never interrupt when a dealer is talking with anyone, whether dealer-customer or collector. These dealers on the bourse floor turn off a lot of people and are losing sales because of their elitist attitudes. I have spent just under $10,000 on individual coins but never with these jerks.

The majority of the bourse dealers are usually in touch with those walking the floors, those that travel to the coin shows just to have fun doing so, and maybe even buy a coin or two. Thank goodness this type of dealer is in the majority.

I would also like to say that when considering very major coin dealers I have found they have very little interest spending bourse time with floor-walkers, whether vest pocket dealers or collectors. I have learned to simply avoid major dealer's tables unless I care to identify myself as one of their preferred clients. I would rather support the small time dealer anyway.

When I am home I would much rather use email than the telephone because email gives me a precise printed record of the discussion. Telephone conversations allow too much room for changing intent or what is actually meant. I have no problem waiting a couple of days for email response. Actually, I find if I don't get a response within two days I probably will not ever hear from them.

FREDinBRIDGETONnewjersey · June 9, 2005 1:12PM

I had an experience with "The King of Carson City". The so-called "dealer" was on the phone at the last Baltimore show when I walked up with $7000 in my pocket. He asked me to wait a second while to finish his phone call. Well, after 3 to 5 minutes, he was still on the phone and I was still waiting. I eventually walked away and spent my money elsewhere to dealers that could tend to business "at hand".

Ok, so $7000 is not going to buy me an uber-rarity but it is a sizeable piece of change. It is dealers like this I like to see go under...the customer should always come first. If you do not care about the customer, how can you care about your business.

Then, I hooked up with my friends there for one more sweep through the bourse floor before we left, and one of them (he's a coin dealer) wanted to pick up some Carson City's for a few of his customers...I told his what had happened to me and he decided to buy them elsewhere.
My friend had over $35,000 in his pocket...CASH!

The King of Carson City lost alot of money that day!

Just my ramblings,

Fred

lordmarcovan · June 9, 2005 1:19PM

<< You found a holed coin worth a million bucks? >>

No problem!

morgannut2 · June 9, 2005 1:28PM

Ya I had the same problem at shows Lord M. Seriously, I bought a fake gold Rolex watch and now they're very attentive.

coynclecter · June 9, 2005 1:29PM

I've met both dealers and collectors that have been rude. It's not excusable from anyone and its not good business. But aside from being overtly rude I can understand when some dealers just don't have time at the moment for smalltalk and I think that unless the same person has done this a couple of times you should cut them some slack if it only happened once.

As far as the email, I have been surprised how many dealers just aren't good business people. They only think of the deal of the moment. If you email about a coin they have sold they wont' respond...because it sold. They don't think of the "building business" aspect. Fortunatley business has its paybacks and these are the first to go broke when things slowdown and others still manage to have a following.

Gator5220 · June 9, 2005 1:34PM

Maybe I'm missing something here...

My wife and I own a furniture store. Believe me, we see all types. But I have learned to never judge a book by its cover. We pride ourselves on customer service, and that's a big reason we have built up a very nice customer base. People can shop anywhere they want to; we are grateful they chose to shop with us. But if we made them feel unwelcome in our store, they would never come back.

Do we have difficult customers? You bet! But if they purchase, we win! Just today a customer comes in as we were walking out, closed. We reopened for her, stayed 20 minutes late, and she purchased $1500 in cash. She also expressed her appreciation that we stayed late. We won another customer.

When I open the cash drawer, I can't tell which bills came from nice customers and which came from difficult ones. I'm just glad the money is in there.

All I'm saying is this: When there is a room full of people in the same business, what separates you from the others?

But I'm just a lurker, so what do I know?

IdahoGal · June 9, 2005 1:42PM

<< All I'm saying is this: When there is a room full of people in the same business, what separates you from the others? >>

Great point!!

Deb048gold · June 9, 2005 2:05PM

Gang, lets face it. The coin business and in particular big shows like Long Beach can bring out the worst
in human behavior. We're not talking about a child friendly hobby here. When there is serious money involved
jerks abound in living technicolor!

I have found that the coin shows are profitable and worth my effort in building quality coin sets.
But, "Katey bar the door". Wear your flack jackets. Many and I say many of the dealers at these shows like Long Beach, are complete jerks with no professionalism whatsoever and act like they belong in a swap meet!

Gator5220 · June 9, 2005 2:12PM

If you don't make time for your customers, your customers won't make time for you.

Deb048gold · June 9, 2005 2:14PM

And if you don't take time with your customers, when a cyclical downturn hits the
coin business, these dealers will be setting pins in a bowling alley!

Myqqy · June 9, 2005 2:26PM

I don't carry a million dollars of discretionary money around with me, so I wouldn't be offended if important dealers blow me off......

ER · June 9, 2005 2:34PM

<< 

<< There's one dealer on the circuit here who is, to put it mildly,a rude dickhead. Clankeye knows who I'm talking about. At every show, I go out of my way to bug him about something trivial.

Russ, NCNE >>

Don't pull punches Russ.

I know about 1/2 way through a show I need an energy bar!

~g

>>

MADMARTY???

Gator5220 · June 10, 2005 3:16AM

ttt, I'm curious if others have any thoughts on this topic...

streeter · June 10, 2005 4:35AM

I'm sure I'll get a rude response but I'll post this anyway

There are times when selling at a trade show when the boss needs a little quiet time and it just isn't to be gotten. The people who criticize dealers need to sit behind the table for a season--travel with your inventory---sleep in strange beds--work 16 hours a day--get jet lag --watch for thieves, smartalecs, suspects, prospects and need to be razor sharp 24/7 to pull it off.

In other words--you need to be the perfect human being.

Don't expect perfection.

Gator5220 · June 10, 2005 4:49AM

If you know what the requirements are to be a dealer, and you choose that as your profession, you shouldn't complain.

Don't get me wrong, we all have good days and bad days. But smiles are free, and they go a long way to establishing good customer rapport.

And one more point: If you have more customers that you can manage, then you should hire more staff to assure your customers are being properly serviced. We just did a couple months ago, and he has already earned his salary in increased sales.

fc · July 10, 2005 7:23AM

interesting thread.

dealers must love their websites that allow them to sell without having to
face hundreds of people every weekend.

librtyhead · July 10, 2005 8:42AM

The worst thing a dealer wants to see is 2 good collectors talking outside their shop about buying coins,then it turns to 3,then.4 etc,all having coffee outside their table or shop talking to people who want to sell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chabot510 · July 10, 2005 9:42AM

Being a YN, I am constantly ignored by dealers who think I couldn't possibly afford some of their inventory. I think it is appauling that these dealers think it is 'ok' to be ignorant to the future of the hobby. At my first show one dealer told me I couldn't afford a coin he had in his case (around $450 I assume). He was wrong. I turned around and found a great 1877 IHC for more then his gold piece. Dealers should not judge for this reason. At the NY Inv. Coin show, I was ignored by most dealers. I had a few thousand dollars in my pocket that I was looking to spend. None of these rude dealers received my business. One of the highlights of the NY show was talking with Doug Winter who did not judge me because of my age. Also, Julian Leidman spent a good deal of time talking to me and showing my his inventory (most of which I could not afford). He even took the time to read my name badge and seemed generally interested in our interaction. David Lawrence was another exception. I have always been happy with their customer relations. Do not judge a book by its cover.

mrearlygold · July 10, 2005 11:56AM

Just because you have money in your pocket doesn't mean I want to do business with you. I agree that outward appearances don't necessarily mean you are credible or not but going beyond that, you can ( and it's happened to me) stick a large certified check in front of me and if you don't act like a person, you can stick the check..........

Takes more than money.

Tom

Edited to add: another perspective from this side of the table

A quick business lesson for a couple 'real' dealers...

Comments

Leave a Comment