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Okay, VAMMERS, or Morgan peops in general...what is this on my 89P? - many pics
Monstavet
Posts: 1,235 ✭✭
I've checked my VAM book and don't see this one...maybe its not a VAM? What is it then? This coin features three die cracks plus an unusual raised area near the wreath on the reverse. Here are some pics...they are blurry (shot through 10x loupe).
First pic: Raised area just inside the right branch of the wreath. YES, it IS raised. You can also see one of the die cracks spiking into the top of the E in AMERICA and running into the R.
Second pic: First die crack (mentioned above) in the E in AMERICA:
Third pic: Long die crack running from the left-hand star across the top of UNIT:
Fourth pic: Small die crack spiking through eagle's right wing. Sorry, this pic didn't turn out well.:
If anyone wants to know, this is an 1889P in an old rattler, MS63.
First pic: Raised area just inside the right branch of the wreath. YES, it IS raised. You can also see one of the die cracks spiking into the top of the E in AMERICA and running into the R.
Second pic: First die crack (mentioned above) in the E in AMERICA:
Third pic: Long die crack running from the left-hand star across the top of UNIT:
Fourth pic: Small die crack spiking through eagle's right wing. Sorry, this pic didn't turn out well.:
If anyone wants to know, this is an 1889P in an old rattler, MS63.
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Comments
Could this be just a die clash?
Mike
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<< <i>...maybe its not a VAM? >>
<< <i>Just to make sure, VAM designations are not given for die clashes, but they are given for die cracks, correct? ALL die cracks? I have the book, but it is still not clear to me what qualifies as VAMS and what does not. >>
<< <i>The first pic is a common die clash mark. >>
WRONG!!
ALL Morgans have a VAM. Some are common some are not. The photos are not clear enough but this is what I suspect:
In Leroy Van Allen's March 2005 updates to the VAM Encyclopedia there's mention about VAM-19A (R6 Very rare-several hundred) with a die break on top of the eagle's right wing showing as a short parallel bar or VAM-19B (R5 Rare- Several thousands) showing a tripled clash die with faint double partial "n" of "In" from reverse showing next to Liberty's head/neck.
I'm thinking yours is probably a VAM-19B.
So yours appears to me to be a "not so common" common die clash and there may be other clashes on your coin you just haven't picked up on yet!! That one shows the dies "clashed" (slammed together) a least a few times due to planchet mis-feeds before your coin was struck.
For example: The VAM-1A 1886-O "E on Reverse" TOP-100 coin has clashes on that right wreath area with some having seven clashes there and two clashes there on others.
The VAM Encyclopedia talks about them on pp119-121 but the "generally not collectible" statement there is no longer entirely valid.
There is a whole new series of clashed die Morgans attributed as VAMs (most of them end in a suffix with an "A" designation and an whole new book (and Variety series like the TOP-100) being written for publication as we speak.
You can learn a little about the book at my eBay link to my Die Clash tool--->Die Clash Tool . You can also see a lot of the clashed die VAM photos and the text descriptions for the VAM-19 A & B at the Ashmore website. ASHMORE VAM UPDATES.
Take a good look around your coin because other clashes may be there that you just haven't noticed yet (that's the purpose of my tool... to help see what COULD be there).
These could make your coin more valuable to Clashed Die collectors as they are more rare than coins in their "normal" condition because there's much less of them.
Die cracks normally can help determine early or late die state (EDS/LDS) and are also used quite extensively to VAM attribute the 1921 coins. I believe Rob Joyce has a book and part of his website pretty much devoted to the 1921 VAMs. Rob Joyce Rare Coins
Some big lumpy die break VAMS have also made their way into the TOP-100 and Hot-50 lists as well.
DIE BREAKS AND CLASHES ARE COOL!!
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
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the first pic looks the dies clashed twice.
Herb
<< <i>Is there such a thing as a double die clash ???
the first pic looks the dies clashed twice. >>
Yes. In this case, there is a very slight rotation between what looks like three clashes. The 1886 VAM 1C has five distinct clashes. Three in one grouping, then a 10 or so degree rotation, then two more. This is probably the only die clash Morgan given a separate VAM designation due to a die clash that did not involve a letter transfer from one side to the other.
As for die cracks, they have to be thick die breaks, with a piece of the die missing, to be cataloged separately.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
vam designation.
When the clash results in reverse letters from 'In God we trust' appearing faintly on the obverse neck area, a new VAM-3A would
be assigned. Also, clashes where Obverse letters from LibErty (Note the 'E') appear under the eagles tail becoming clashed 'E' reverse
coins. These are usually scarce and in great demand in AU and above especially the 1889-O VAM-1A (Note the 'A' designation),
1891-O VAM-1A, etc. I always check the neck area and under the eagles tail when you have a clashed Morgan dollar. It's fun!
The most famous clash is probably the spectacular 1889 VAM-23A where nearly the entire word 'IN' appears upside down next to the neck.
Only 3 specimens are known. One sold for over 7,000 dollars in 2004.
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