Opinions on Numistrust Grading?

asfhgwt · May 24, 2005 11:20PM

I recently saw a Morgan dollar on ebay graded MS-68 by Numistrust, but the scan seemed to show scratches right on the "cheek"! Is it a safe assumption that anything graded MS-nn by Numistrust should be considered 2-3 levels lower?

rlawsha · May 24, 2005 11:22PM

Or more...

nesvt · May 24, 2005 11:27PM

I've bought three Morgans in Numitrust slabs. At first I thought the higher the grade, the further off. I'm still learning how to grade, but if I had to guess on my three coins....
MS64 was really an MS63.
MS63 was about AU55... maybe even 50.
Another MS63 was MS60.

ss350camaro · May 24, 2005 11:29PM

They are very generous

XpipedreamR · May 24, 2005 11:31PM

Numistrust sucks. Remember, "mistrust" is part of their name

ER · May 24, 2005 11:31PM

to the boards. Please learn before wasting your hard-earned money.

ibzman350 · May 24, 2005 11:34PM

Herb

RYK · May 24, 2005 11:35PM

If you can't say anything nice...

ER · May 24, 2005 11:35PM

<< If you can't say anything nice... >>

say it anyway.

nesvt · May 24, 2005 11:40PM

<< I've bought three Morgans in Numitrust slabs. At first I thought the higher the grade, the further off. I'm still learning how to grade, but if I had to guess on my three coins....
MS64 was really an MS63.
MS63 was about AU55... maybe even 50.
Another MS63 was MS60. >>

I should have added that the photos looked even worse than my estimated grades. I was buying the coins (nice VAMs), not the slabs.

PhillyJoe · May 24, 2005 11:59PM

Welcome. Remember there are slabbing companies doing business as grading companies. Since grading is subjective, anyone with a slabbing machine thinks they can grade to "their" standard. Accugrade freely admits that they use their own grading scale which has nothing in common with industry standards.

Joe

PerryHall · May 25, 2005 12:02AM

NTC (and a few others) is used by some "dealers" to slab coins which they can sell to new collectors at inflated prices.

asfhgwt · May 25, 2005 12:08AM

Thanks for the advice and the welcomes. New to collecting, my plan is to focus on PCGS/NGC Morgans graded MS-64 or MS-65, plus a few MS-63 CC Morgans. Any hints for me, or tricks of the trade while I learn how to grade? Anyone have experience with ebay sellers? Thanks!

paigowjohnny · May 25, 2005 12:25AM

Don't rule out ANACS...I personally feel they're pretty good with mint state Morgans

nwcs · May 25, 2005 12:44AM

Where's Marty's Bwahahaha dog?

michael · May 25, 2005 12:54AM

just try some numistrust graded coins and see for yourself..........nothing better than experience on the front lines

gyocomgd · May 25, 2005 12:55AM

Three months ago I cracked three MS67 Morgans out of the NTC holders and submitted to PCGS. Both were so good I thought they'd be sent back only one grade lower. Wrong--all three were exactly two grades lower. A pretty good barometer I think. But who knows--maybe there's a type of coin they grade a little tougher on.

VAMs4U2BuyHere · May 25, 2005 1:18AM

I have had extensive experience with NTC.

From what I've seen, their really big accounts get "taken care of" with excessively high grades. Before having any experience with them, or ever seeing any of their slabs, I decided to use their services because the price was right and they are only a 20 minute drive away thereby saving the shipping fees both ways. My first submission to them as a small time dealer was 20 coins. The coins came back in what I thought were accurate grades. So naturally, I'm thinking they are ok. My second, and last, submission was 40 coins. Most came back accurate with a couple of nice surprises, but nothing really too far out of line. A few weeks later I go to a very large dealer of NTC coins and find that their coins are overgraded. Really overgraded. Substantially overgraded. Anywhere from 1-3 levels in MS. This immediately turned me off to NTC and I have new transitioned over to PCGS, NGC, ICG and ANACS.

The moral of the above story is... Buy the coin, not the slab. On the upside

. the thing about NTC right now is that they have such a bad reputation, that you can actually find some accurately graded coins really, really underpriced. Again, buy the coin, not the slab.

I now wonder if NGC and PCGS grades in the same manner. When a 200 coin submission comes into PCGS or NGC, the graders know that it's probably a very big account, so I wonder if that influences the grades. Comments?

K6AZ · May 25, 2005 1:32AM

<< just try some numistrust graded coins and see for yourself..........nothing better than experience on the front lines >>

Very bad advice Michael. I've seen enough better date Morgans and semi-keys in NTC MS63 holders that were sliders to advise against anyone new buying them, especially sight unseen.

Asfhgwt, if you are unsure how to grade Morgans, stick with PCGS, NGC and ANACS graded coins.

Russ · May 25, 2005 1:38AM

<< Where's Marty's Bwahahaha dog? >>

Russ, NCNE

nwcs · May 25, 2005 1:55AM

<< 

<< Where's Marty's Bwahahaha dog? >>

Russ, NCNE >>

Great!

fullerfun4 · May 25, 2005 1:56AM

If you can get a good look at a coin, whether in person or in a really good scan, then it doen't matter what holder it is in. If it is NTC, NNC, or whatever, you can evaluate it and valuate it and pay what you think is appropriate. (or pass on it). What bothers me about these off brand TPG's is their apparent inability (or lack of desire) to properly identify problem coins or counterfeits that will be body bagged by other TPG's.
Regards
Gary

nankraut · May 25, 2005 3:01AM

Where's Marty's Bwahahaha dog?
Damn...that dog is fugly!

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