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Sound familiar? Someone else in FL should be worried

The following is a story that broke last year. Armand DeAngelis has pleaded guilty on several counts and will be sentenced in July.


Two charged in $5 million coin scam

The headline goes here

By Catherine Wilson

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


MIAMI - A couple who advertised in Christian magazines has been charged with running a $5 million fraud by selling gold coins at two to three times their actual value, federal prosecutors said Wednesday.

Customers claim the coins were actually worth as little as 10 percent of the sales price.

The $5 million figure was tied to charges in a 38-count mail and wire fraud and money-laundering indictment, but Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard Boscovich said in court that the coin scam pitched by a self-proclaimed born-again Christian may have cost investors $10 million since 2000.

The Miami couple lived the lifestyle of millionaires as complaints mounted against them in the operations of U.S. Coin Exchange Inc., Coin and Currency Clearing Corp. and Twenty-First Century Grading Service Inc.

Bail was set at $1 million for Armand DeAngelis, who has a New Jersey securities-fraud conviction on his record, and $200,000 for his wife, Marcela Ospina Cardona.

U.S. Coin Exchange used a Christian fish symbol and Bible quotations on its letterhead and promoted itself as the leading Christian gold dealer, the indictment said. Ads appeared in Christian magazines such as World, The American Prospect, Christianity Today, Pulpit Helps and Christian Parenting Today.

All three companies were controlled by DeAngelis even though the grading company was represented as an independent coin assessor, the indictment said. The clearinghouse and grading company shared the same Miami address.

Steven Chaykin, attorney for DeAngelis, a New York native who is charged in all 38 counts, said his client cooperated with investigators, did not commit any crimes and is confident that he will be cleared.

Sam Rabin, attorney for Ospina, said she was "wrongfully charged and should not have been included in this indictment." The Colombian citizen faces a conspiracy charge as president of the clearinghouse, which delivered coins to the grading company.

A disgruntled customer filed a civil racketeering suit against DeAngelis in 2000, claiming DeAngelis preyed on Y2K worries that the U.S. monetary system could collapse and offered a set of four coins with a face value of $37.50 for $3,560, claiming they were rare. Others claimed he targeted the elderly and IRA holders.

Another unhappy customer, Kenneth Viall of Hallstead, Pa., launched a personal crusade, including a Web site, against DeAngelis after Viall claimed he was ripped off on coin deals dating back to 1995.

DeAngelis "has done awful, awful things to people from all over the country. He pretends to be born-again Christian. He sucks them into these contracts," said Viall's attorney, Gerald Houlihan. DeAngelis sued Viall for nonpayment in 1999 in what Viall claims was an attempt to intimidate him into silence.


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Comments

  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,092 ✭✭✭

    Does anything good come out of Florida ?? image


    TorinoCobra71

    Do I count ???

    image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    I hope there's a special place in hell for those who tout their "faith" as a ruse to steal from people.

    Russ, NCNE
  • ss350camaross350camaro Posts: 4,529


    << <i>Sound familiar? Someone else in FL should be worried >>



    I can make the obvious implied connections but can you explain the reasons why someone in FL should be worried?

    Understandable if certain limitations prevent you from elaborating image

  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    What's not in that story is that for two years (2001-2003) he threatened people with lawsuits for defamation and libel. It's a story that will be repeated very soon.
  • BigMooseBigMoose Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭
    If I remember correctly, the DeAngelis brothers had a shop set up in Stroudsburg, Penna. many years ago and were arrested and, I believe, convicted, for similar shenanegans in Penna.
    TomT-1794

    Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org


  • << <i>Sound familiar? >>



    Another unhappy customer, Kenneth Viall of Hallstead, Pa., launched a personal crusade, including a Web site, against DeAngelis after Viall claimed he was ripped off on coin deals dating back to 1995.

    Yeah, kinda!!!

    image
    TPN
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭


    I admit I am a west coast guy and have never been to Florida and can not get excited about the prospect of ever going there. I asked a midwestern friend if he could explain 'Florida' to me. He said it was a bunch of old people and a bunch of younger ones trying to scam them.image
    Have a nice day
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm west coast, been to florida, and liked it for the most part (for a visit).
    Course, they have the hurricanes to worry about, again this year.

    Should be another good year for metal detecting though...just not for home insurance costs.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I hope there's a special place in hell for those who tout their "faith" as a ruse to steal from people.

    Russ, NCNE >>

    I am sure there is a place for them. Same as those who use personal or national tragedies to defraud people.
  • SFDukieSFDukie Posts: 618


    << <i>I admit I am a west coast guy and have never been to Florida and can not get excited about the prospect of ever going there. I asked a midwestern friend if he could explain 'Florida' to me. He said it was a bunch of old people and a bunch of younger ones trying to scam them.image >>



    Hi streeter,
    I'm in SF, and have lived in CA for 12 years. I have to respond- many here in CA get a bit smug about where they live.
    FL has no mountains, and not really even any hills, but it has some beautiful beaches, amazing islands, rivers, waterholes and wildlife. The coldest ocean water in FL is warmer than the warmest ocean water in CA. Appalachacola oysters are possibly the world's best. Cape Sable is as pretty and remote as any part of CA.



    << <i>I hope there's a special place in hell for those who tout their "faith" as a ruse to steal from people.
    Russ, NCNE >>



    I hope so as well.

    Don


  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭


    << <i>.S. monetary system could collapse and offered a set of four coins with a face value of $37.50 for $3,560 >>



    A four coin set with a face value of $37.50 is a type set. Double Eagel, Eagle, Half Eagle, and Quarter Eagle. Can't you think of lots of 4 coin gold type sets that you would gladly pay $3,560 for?

    Of coure I can also think of lots of sets that would be very over priced at that leve. But unless you know exactly what they were selling you can't jump to conclusions.

    The other day I saw the HSN guys offering 3 common date MS 63 CC Morgans as a set for approximately $400 per coin. The actual value of each coin is maybe $225 at best. Is that a crime too?


    CG
  • I hope there's a special place in hell for those who tout their "faith" as a ruse to steal from people.

    Russ, NCNE

    -------------------------
    Greed is good, and the pursuit of profit the loftiest of ideals.©

    Apparently as long as greed doesnt trump faith!!!

    Just thought it was a bit image to read those two points so close in proxmity but so far apart ideologically.

    image
    TPN
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    So what's your point, DeAngelis did not commit a crime?

    Here is the website of one of his victims:

    US Coin Exchange Fraud
  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭


    << <i>So what's your point, DeAngelis did not commit a crime? >>



    Are you now some sort of grand inquisitor Eric? I have no opinion of whether anyone is guilty of a crime. I cannot tell from the article posted whether a crime has even been commited. What is the crime? Charging a higher price than "market"? Or is that only a crime if the buyer is a little old church going lady?

    What in the article even demonstrates that anyone was actually ripped off. You tell me exactly what coins were sold

    CG
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    I hope you are prepared to eat crow when another indictment is handed down. See my post with the poll.
  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    CalGold............. It seems like your overlooking the little fact that DeAngelis has pleaded GUILTY to multiple felonies!
    USAF vet 1951-59
  • RVDavisRVDavis Posts: 1,137
    Streeter

    As a native Floridian I think your remarks are unpleasant bordering on nasty. Why disparge a place you have never visited? Florida has plenty of old folks for sure; that does not bother me because I grew up with a bunch of elderly neighbors and I learned many things from them, including a love of collecting coins. I also learned manners and to show others respect. Something that would have benefited you significantly.

    Scams occur everywhere not just in Florida; I dare say that I could come up with quite a few facts about 'west coast' residents that would be inflamatory and inaccurate.

    Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295


    << <i>

    << <i>So what's your point, DeAngelis did not commit a crime? >>



    Are you now some sort of grand inquisitor Eric? I have no opinion of whether anyone is guilty of a crime. I cannot tell from the article posted whether a crime has even been commited. What is the crime? Charging a higher price than "market"? Or is that only a crime if the buyer is a little old church going lady?

    What in the article even demonstrates that anyone was actually ripped off. You tell me exactly what coins were sold

    CG >>



    Case Assigned to: Judge Alan S. Gold





    ARMAND A DEANGELIS (1) , DOB: Steven Elliot Chaykin
    6/10/57 Prisoner #70782-004 FTS 579-9749
    defendant [COR LD NTC tmp]
    Zuckerman Spaeder Taylor &
    Evans
    201 S Biscayne Boulevard
    Suite 900
    Miami, FL 33131
    305-358-5000

    Pending Counts: Disposition

    18:371.F CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD
    THE UNITED STATES
    (1)

    18:1341.F FRAUDS AND SWINDLES
    (2 - 12)

    18:1341.F FRAUDS AND SWINDLES
    (13)

    18:1343.F FRAUD BY WIRE, RADIO,
    OR TELEVISION
    (14 - 23)

    18:1956-3100.F MONEY
    LAUNDERING-LARCENY/THEFT BANK
    (24 - 33)

    18:1957-3200.F LARCENY AND
    THEFT, POSTAL
    (34 - 38)

  • CalGoldCalGold Posts: 2,608 ✭✭
    Again, based on the information presented in the article posted what crime was committed? The fact that DeAngelis may have pled guilty does not mean that the article posted disloses any information that indicates that a crime was committed. There have to be a lot of facts that were not discussed in the article.

    CG
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>As a native Floridian I think your remarks are unpleasant bordering on nasty. >>



    image

    Oh, and I lived in Florida for a year. Hated it.

    Russ, NCNE
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Are you really this dense? Read the website I posted above from one of his victims.
  • DJCDJC Posts: 787


    << <i>

    << <i>As a native Floridian I think your remarks are unpleasant bordering on nasty. >>



    image

    Oh, and I lived in Florida for a year. Hated it.

    Russ, NCNE >>



    I've lived here 25 years. Hate it too. image

    (But that booming housing market provides for lotsa coin purchases image
  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    RV Davis..................I have been to FL many times and was stationed not far away in Valdosta, GA many years ago. I also have a daughter that lives in Orange Park Acres with her family. It just seems FL attracts a lot of scam artists. The answer might be that it's because of the large number of seniors from NY that are to stupid to figure out an election ballot.
    USAF vet 1951-59
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The answer might be that it's because of the large number of seniors from NY that are to stupid to figure out an election ballot. >>



    That remark is unpleasant bordering on nasty.

    Russ, NCNE



  • << <i> The answer might be that it's because of the large number of seniors from NY that are to stupid to figure out an election ballot. >>



    I wonder if they are also too stupid to understand the difference beween "to" and "too"?????
  • DJCDJC Posts: 787


    << <i>The answer might be that it's because of the large number of seniors from NY that are to stupid to figure out an election ballot. >>



    That remark is unpleasant bordering on true.
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hello, 9-1-1? Yes, I'd like to report an attempted thread highjack...that's right, it's at www.pcgs.com...thanks, I'll hold.



    image

    Never, never, NEVER trust anyone who wears their "Born Again Christianity" on their sleeve.

    Cheers,

    Bob
  • RampageRampage Posts: 9,646 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>
    I'm in SF, and have lived in CA for 12 years. I have to respond- many here in CA get a bit smug about where they live.
    FL has no mountains, and not really even any hills, but it has some beautiful beaches, amazing islands, rivers, waterholes and wildlife. The coldest ocean water in FL is warmer than the warmest ocean water in CA. Appalachacola oysters are possibly the world's best. Cape Sable is as pretty and remote as any part of CA.

    I hope so as well.

    Don >>



    That would be Apalachicola. imageimage
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RVDAVIS

    I sincerely apologize for hitting a raw nerve. My friend owns a bank in OHIO and visits Florida regularly. I think he hit the nail on the head.
    This is for you..





































    image
    Have a nice day
  • Depends on what they said about the 3 CC's.

    If they said nothing as to value then it is probably buyer beware. If they made claims that would be known to be untrue by a "coin expert" then they are at a minimum committing a moral crime if not worse.

    Reason is that a consumer would have an expectation that someone on TV had expertise that they could depend on and these guys on TV at least give the appearance by their actions and words that they are offering good deals to people.

    Maybe no worse than other "scams" but I don't like it because in the end it gives all of us a black eye.
  • You are being very naive or you don't understand the situation.
  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    Vams4U2BuyHere, Clayton, run back to your master AH and kiss his rear. We know who you are.
    USAF vet 1951-59
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    Can't we stay on topic and be civil around here folks?
  • RVDavisRVDavis Posts: 1,137
    Streeter

    Interestingly enough, I would be very happy if everyone in the good old USA shared your beliefs concerning Florida. Decades ago, when I was growing up in the state, it was a wonderful environment of friendly people, abundant wildlife and villages. Now, it has turned into the standard US megalopolis with the added problems of resource over utilization, corrupt politicians and rampant development. That is what happens when population goes from 2 million (I think) to 17 million in 25 years.

    I spent my boyhood poling the waters of Mosquito Lagoon and surfing. Today, we have waverunners and yachts tearing up sensitive seagrass beds and running over each other.

    BTW I do not share the bias against New Yorkers, Ohionans or Canadians that is so common amongst natives. I wish everybody would leave.

    Grin.

    Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VAMS--did you ever figure out what you are?


    "I am not a coin expert, a coin professional, a coin dealer or a coin grader. Any grading that I may state in an auction listing is my opinion only, unless otherwise noted. I try to base my grading on PCGS & NGC standards. Please look carefully at the pictures. I take very good photographs of the obverse and reverse of every coin so that you can grade the coin yourself. Please bid on your grade, not mine. You are bidding on, and you will receive, the EXACT coin in the ..."

    Taken from your auction--nice way to back out of being responsible for your actions. You are not a grader but you base your grading on PCGS and NGC standards??????? So you can grade like them????? But you are not a grader. I was not aware either PCGS or NGC published their standards.
    Have a nice day
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I was not aware either PCGS or NGC published their standards. >>

    In at least a limited sense they do:

    PCGS grading guide:
    PCGS Grading and Counterfeit Detection Guide
    This 415-page paperback book was edited by Scott A. Travers with text written by John Dannreuther, and contains detailed descriptions of coin grades and the intricacies of counterfeit detection. There are nearly 600 sharply-detailed color and black and white digital images of coins. This new edition contains major innovations and enhancements including grading guides for superb-quality Statehood quarters and modern commemoratives, and updated "insider" information about the way lasers are used to deceptively "doctor" coins.
    Normally: $19.95
    Sale: $18.95

    NGC grading guide:
    The Numismatic Guaranty Corporation grades countless coins and now shares years of experience and knowledge with all collectors. This instructional guide gives informative data on what to look for when buying graded modern U.S. coins. The book will teach you how to identify and grade coins. This 1st edition is ideal for any beginner or experienced coin collector.
    $14.95
  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146
    Mark, this Vams4U2BuyHere is another ACG plant.
    USAF vet 1951-59
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,599 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can't we stay on topic and be civil around here folks?

    Bite me, Fantasy Boy! image
  • SFDukieSFDukie Posts: 618


    << <i>

    << <i>
    I'm in SF, and have lived in CA for 12 years. I have to respond- many here in CA get a bit smug about where they live.
    FL has no mountains, and not really even any hills, but it has some beautiful beaches, amazing islands, rivers, waterholes and wildlife. The coldest ocean water in FL is warmer than the warmest ocean water in CA. Appalachacola oysters are possibly the world's best. Cape Sable is as pretty and remote as any part of CA.


    Don >>



    That would be Apalachicola. imageimage >>



    Either way, they taste great, and foil a spellchecker. image

    I'll try to spell it correctly nest time.
    Don

  • STREETER -

    << <i>VAMS--did you ever figure out what you are? >>


    I see, when you have nothing intelligent to say you just resort to direct personal attacks... again. Sorry, I just won't reduce myself to your level and play your childish immature games. You obviously can't keep up with the topic, so I suggest that you move to another thread.


    GAT -

    << <i>Vams4U2BuyHere, Clayton, run back to your master AH and kiss his rear. We know who you are. >>



    << <i>Mark, this Vams4U2BuyHere is another ACG plant. >>



    You make accusations based on nothing. I don't know who or what AH is. I have no affiliation with ACG or any other organization. Again, like your buddy Streeter, when you have nothing intelligent to say you just resort to direct personal attacks, even if you have to fabricate them. You obviously can't keep up with the topic either, so move to another thread.

    It's amazing to witness the complete and total lack of intelligent discussion here. It seems when somebody can't understand the topic, or can't think of anything to contribute, it's just right back to mud-slinging and direct personal attacks. You people really are pathetic. Bad mouth me all you want, but base it on facts, not some bull&#!+ fabricated theory.
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777
    Can't we stay on topic and be civil around here folks?

    Don't try to spoil the good times!! image
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vams-- I just took the quote off your ebay auction. If you consider it an attack then so be it. Also you have contradicted yourself about not being a dealer / being a dealer. I suppose you forgot that. Do not ever concern yourself about me bidding on your ebay auctions in your passive aggressive life. carry on bucko
    Have a nice day
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Bad mouth me all you want, but base it on facts, not some bull&#!+ fabricated theory. >>



    Okay.

    Fact: On this forum you stated "I'm just a dealer who can't afford to be a collector."

    Fact: In your auction descriptions you state, "I am not a coin expert, a coin professional, a coin dealer or a coin grader."

    Which time were you lying?

    Russ, NCNE
  • I have become a full time coin dealer in the last two months or so. I have adjusted most of my auctions by removing the statement, or adjusting it to read "I am not a coin expert, a coin professional, or a certified coin grader."

    Example Here

    In the last week, have been adding a 3 day return privilege to all of my single coin sales.

    Does this satisfy you?

  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    What's up calling this a 65?

    image
  • SFDukieSFDukie Posts: 618


    << <i>Streeter

    Interestingly enough, I would be very happy if everyone in the good old USA shared your beliefs concerning Florida. Decades ago, when I was growing up in the state, it was a wonderful environment of friendly people, abundant wildlife and villages. Now, it has turned into the standard US megalopolis with the added problems of resource over utilization, corrupt politicians and rampant development. That is what happens when population goes from 2 million (I think) to 17 million in 25 years.

    I spent my boyhood poling the waters of Mosquito Lagoon and surfing. Today, we have waverunners and yachts tearing up sensitive seagrass beds and running over each other.

    BTW I do not share the bias against New Yorkers, Ohionans or Canadians that is so common amongst natives. I wish everybody would leave.

    Grin. >>



    Hi RV
    Actually, there were almost 10 Million Floridians in 1980, according to the census bureau. But your point is well taken- population has increased more than 4 fold since 1960- and alot of the growth has been poorly planned.
    Now if the transplants to Fl would just stop buying vacation homes in the NC mountains, I'd be a happier man.
    Grin and grimace
    Don
  • RVDavisRVDavis Posts: 1,137
    Don

    Good point I know a number of folks who have gone to NC for vacation. Sorry about that, man.

    You missed my boyhood by about 35 years; 10 million in 1980 sounds about right. What was the population in 1960? Whatever the numbers, growing up 200 feet from the ocean on a barrier island was a gift I did not appreciate until too late.

    On topic, I think it is awful how folks take advantage of elderly. My mother took her car to a dealer for a PCV valve replacement and ended up with a $780 bill for a bunch of stuff she did not need. Yep, in Florida.

    I used to drive to Hatteras and Waves to surf the summer storm breaks. Tremendous!

    Rick
    Proud recipient of YOU SUCK more than once and less than 100 times.
  • messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,726 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I admit I am a west coast guy and have never been to Florida and can not get excited about the prospect of ever going there. I asked a midwestern friend if he could explain 'Florida' to me. He said it was a bunch of old people and a bunch of younger ones trying to scam them.image >>


    OK, where is the "spit-take" smiley?
  • floridian since 86, hate it. Bunch of rednecks, snowbirds, old farts, derelicts,pervs, losers. Stay away.... unless u want to buy my house which has quadrupled in value in 9 years.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vams

    I was looking at this piece. 3971052288. How come you didn't just have one of your two mentoring grading companies slab it ???? and you'd be up several hundred dollars.

    Oh by the way--it's a washed out 58 not your proclaimed 66.
    ANA I believe offers a grading class.

    I need to go back to school. Your auctions are fascinating.image

    editted: Thank you for the link.Someone please teach me that.
    Have a nice day

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