outbid by a shill bidder on Ebay......

legacycoin · May 18, 2005 9:45AM

Anyone ever deal with shcoins on Ebay? The bidding history by the current high bidder on this item 1866S no motto looks, while, let's just say suspicious.

Bidder history

There are two items in the bidder's history not from the same seller, however the bids on those were low placeholder bids not intending to win.

Wonder if I might just get a "second chance" offer on this one......

Russ · May 18, 2005 9:46AM

<< Anyone ever deal with shcoins on Ebay? >>

Several times, both through eBay and in person.

Russ, NCNE

legacycoin · May 18, 2005 9:48AM

So am I just being a little paranoid about this? Just curious....

wayneme · May 18, 2005 9:50AM

if you bid what your willing to pay then you have no reason to be upset
if it's a shill bidder your a head on the game

Russ · May 18, 2005 9:52AM

<< So am I just being a little paranoid about this? >>

Not necessarily. The guy who owns the shop, Tony, seems honest. But, he's a full time Cop so he has a couple people working for him. Them I can't vouch for.

Russ, NCNE

coinguy1 · May 18, 2005 9:52AM

The title of this thread appears to be a case of jumping the gun/unfair based upon the "evidence" presented.

K6AZ · May 18, 2005 10:07AM

<< The title of this thread appears to be a case of jumping the gun/unfair based upon the "evidence" presented. >>

I'm not so sure about that Mark. Look at the list of coins he has bid on. None of them define a specific interest. A 1914-D Lincoln, 1908 NM Saint, 89-CC Morgan, and so on. At the very least suspicious.

Bochiman · May 18, 2005 10:10AM

I wouldn't base it on that Eric.
Take a look at the coins I bid on (I don't always win).
I am ALL over the charts......

K6AZ · May 18, 2005 10:15AM

Well, there are some other things, like he won an auction on April 18th and has neither received or posted feedback for. As I said, at the very least, suspicious. But you really can't tell any more except for the most blatant shills.

CalGold · May 18, 2005 10:16AM

<< The title of this thread appears to be a case of jumping the gun/unfair based upon the "evidence" presented >>

Trial by innuendo seems to be par for the course around here lately.

CG

K6AZ · May 18, 2005 10:18AM

<< 

<< The title of this thread appears to be a case of jumping the gun/unfair based upon the "evidence" presented >>

Trial by innuendo seems to be par for the course around here lately.

CG >>

Right. You don't seem to think someone has done something wrong even when they're indicted by a federal grand jury and plead guilty.

Give it a rest.

Myqqy · May 18, 2005 10:26AM

Anyone ever deal with shcoins on Ebay?
Several times, both through eBay and in person.

Russ, can I assume that these transactions were satisfactory?

coinguy1 · May 18, 2005 10:27AM

<< The title of this thread appears to be a case of jumping the gun/unfair based upon the "evidence" presented. >>

<<I'm not so sure about that Mark. Look at the list of coins he has bid on. None of them define a specific interest. A 1914-D Lincoln, 1908 NM Saint, 89-CC Morgan, and so on. At the very least suspicious.>>

Eric, I intentionally used the word "appears". Also, the wording of the thread title indicates a factual conclusion rather than just a suspicion (whether reasonable or otherwise).

Russ · May 18, 2005 10:38AM

<< Russ, can I assume that these transactions were satisfactory? >>

They were rips, so the answer would be yes.

Russ, NCNE

ziggy29 · May 18, 2005 11:27AM

While I wouldn't outright accuse without proof, it looks really shady. They've "won" items from the same seller again and again -- going back a month -- and neither has left feedback for each other. Plus, 9 of the 11 bids this "buyer" placed has been with the same seller. They've won 5 from this seller and looks like it may be 6 very soon.

Four wins came from April 18 to May 2, ALL from this same seller -- plenty of time for transactions to complete and feedback to be left. Yet this bidder still has zero feedback and hasn't left any.

I make no accusations. But it fails the smell test.

coinguy1 · May 18, 2005 11:30AM

Has anyone checked to see if the alleged shill bidder has retracted any bids for items offered by the seller in question? That, or its absence, would be an additional good piece of evdence to consider.

wayneme · May 18, 2005 12:00PM

i'm not good with words but to put up a thead like this seems to me to be sour grapes
a midwest thing i like to have proof before i jump

JrGMan2004 · May 18, 2005 12:10PM

<< While I wouldn't outright accuse without proof, it looks really shady. They've "won" items from the same seller again and again -- going back a month -- and neither has left feedback for each other. Plus, 9 of the 11 bids this "buyer" placed has been with the same seller. They've won 5 from this seller and looks like it may be 6 very soon. >>

This means little... we get a TON of Repeat buyers on our auctions, often winning dozens of auction in a month... some of them, only leave feedback once, and then never leave feedback again for any other auctions, and it's generally our policy to not leave feedback, until the buyer leaves feedback for us...

K6AZ · May 18, 2005 12:12PM

<< This means little... we get a TON of Repeat buyers on our auctions, often winning dozens of auction in a month... some of them, only leave feedback once, and then never leave feedback again for any other auctions, and it's generally our policy to not leave feedback, until the buyer leaves feedback for us... >>

Uh oh George, now you are going to hear from all the feedback junkies that "deserve" feedback as soon as they pay.

ccex · May 18, 2005 12:55PM

<< Anyone ever deal with shcoins on Ebay? .. >>

Yes. The "AU-55" Barber dime I won from them two months ago had an intentionally overexposed scan and turned out to be a cleaned XF. I returned the coin, accepted their restocking fee, and left neutral feedback when their refund check cleared. A few hours later (in the wee hours of the morning) they retaliated with a negative.

Before I received the dime, another forum member posted an shcoins eBay auction for a 1944-D Lincoln with altered date being sold as a 1914-D.

Until tonight, I hadn't considered the possibility of shill bidders, but I wouldn't put it past them.

ccex · May 18, 2005 1:00PM

<< Anyone ever deal with shcoins on Ebay? .. >>

Yes. The "AU-55" Barber dime I won from them two months ago had an intentionally overexposed scan and turned out to be a cleaned XF. I returned the coin, accepted their restocking fee, surrendered a few dollars in handling charges, and left neutral feedback when their refund check cleared. A few hours later (in the wee hours of the morning) they retaliated with my first negative in a negative in over four years. I wear this negative proudly.

Before I received the dime, another forum member posted an shcoins eBay auction for a 1944-D Lincoln with altered date being sold as a 1914-D.

Until tonight, I hadn't considered the possibility of shill bidders, but I wouldn't put it past them.

Sorry for the double post!

KurtHorn · May 18, 2005 1:33PM

<< 

<< This means little... we get a TON of Repeat buyers on our auctions, often winning dozens of auction in a month... some of them, only leave feedback once, and then never leave feedback again for any other auctions, and it's generally our policy to not leave feedback, until the buyer leaves feedback for us... >>

Uh oh George, now you are going to hear from all the feedback junkies that "deserve" feedback as soon as they pay. >>

Jeeze, I'm laughing so hard now, I'm coughin my guts out!

oreville · May 18, 2005 1:41PM

Once a positive feedback is exchanged between the same buyer and seller, another positive feedback will not change the positive feedback count.

Perhaps that will explain why repeat buyers and sellers don't bother exchanging feedbacks.

Heck, I don't.

joefro · May 18, 2005 1:58PM

Im pretty new around here, but not to bidding on e-bay. However, Im not familiar with all of the terminology you all use around here. Is a "shill bidder" simply a fake bidder in cahoots with the seller who just bids to up the final price, but never actually does anything if they win? Thanks in advance.
Joe

coinguy1 · May 18, 2005 11:30PM

<< Is a "shill bidder" simply a fake bidder in cahoots with the seller who just bids to up the final price, but never actually does anything if they win? >>

Joe, that's pretty much it.

aficionado · May 19, 2005 12:07AM

I don't see where it matters, cause you were outbid anyway. Maybe your just a little sour because of that.

PerryHall · May 19, 2005 1:59AM

<< 

<< Is a "shill bidder" simply a fake bidder in cahoots with the seller who just bids to up the final price, but never actually does anything if they win? >>

Joe, that's pretty much it.

>>

A shill could also be the seller bidding on his own auction under a different identity.

Coinhusker1 · May 19, 2005 2:41AM

<< 

<< Anyone ever deal with shcoins on Ebay? .. >>

Yes. The "AU-55" Barber dime I won from them two months ago had an intentionally overexposed scan and turned out to be a cleaned XF. I returned the coin, accepted their restocking fee, and left neutral feedback when their refund check cleared. A few hours later (in the wee hours of the morning) they retaliated with a negative.

Before I received the dime, another forum member posted an shcoins eBay auction for a 1944-D Lincoln with altered date being sold as a 1914-D.

Until tonight, I hadn't considered the possibility of shill bidders, but I wouldn't put it past them. >>

Oooh that's nasty!! Retalitating a neutral with a neg!! Gotta be a major rip before I buy from them!!

Russ · May 19, 2005 2:51AM

<< << Anyone ever deal with shcoins on Ebay? .. >>

Yes. The "AU-55" Barber dime I won from them two months ago had an intentionally overexposed scan and turned out to be a cleaned XF. I returned the coin, accepted their restocking fee, and left neutral feedback when their refund check cleared. A few hours later (in the wee hours of the morning) they retaliated with a negative.

Before I received the dime, another forum member posted an shcoins eBay auction for a 1944-D Lincoln with altered date being sold as a 1914-D.

Until tonight, I hadn't considered the possibility of shill bidders, but I wouldn't put it past them. >>

Oooh that's nasty!! Retalitating a neutral with a neg!! Gotta be a major rip before I buy from them!! >>

Based on that information, I'm done buying from them. I refuse to do business with sellers who retaliate against a buyer because of a legitimate feedback.

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ · May 19, 2005 3:06AM

<< Based on that information, I'm done buying from them. I refuse to do business with sellers who retaliate against a buyer because of a legitimate feedback. >>

Here's the neutral and followup Paul left for the seller:

Rec'd refund for an overgraded cleaned coin today. My mistake for bidding here.
Follow-up by ccex: This neutral made the seller retaliate with my first negative in 4 years. Beware

The retaliatory negative and reply:

Coin was accuratly graded and well pictured. We still issed refund.
Reply by ccex: Retaliatory negative left for my neutral to this seller. Beware!

outbid by a shill bidder on Ebay......

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