Amazing Bag Toned 1879 s Morgan: How much does a toning break hurt?

MrD · April 30, 2005 12:03AM

I was sent this wonderful coin and was curious how people view the affect of a toning break on a spectacular coin (pricewise)? The coin is much cooler than the pictures and glows in the dark

gamr0n · April 30, 2005 12:08AM

I thought certain shades of orange like that were a sign of AT?

Dennis88 · April 30, 2005 12:09AM

I think it has character..........

Dennis

coinguy1 · April 30, 2005 12:09AM

MrD, just checking to be clear - is that a "toning break" where there is no toning, or is that an area of lighter toning? It almost looks like a streak of light toning that is into the metal slightly.

Either way, that area detracts from the aesthetic appeal and value of the coin, though the amounts will differ from person to person.

By the way, just so you know, if the coin "glows in the dark" it's AT.

MrD · April 30, 2005 12:21AM

Mark
It appears that those two gray toning streaks are dead (luster wise) and it looks as if the coin sat up against the seam of a bag. I had an 1881 cc Morgan in a government holder that had a very similat toning break.

TONEDDOLLARS · April 30, 2005 12:41AM

That coin is not AT, I for one do not like the break in the toning, but other than that it is one neat looking coin.

poorguy · April 30, 2005 12:42AM

Wow! Now that is a sweet coin. I love the colors. Too bad it has that "dead area" in regards to the toning. Here's one that has that grey streak also.

LeeG · April 30, 2005 12:46AM

Sorry, but it doesn't work for me. Too distracting. Which is really a shame on this one!

anablep · April 30, 2005 12:50AM

It's okay.

I'm not sure I like the color combinations in that type of toning. The blues are nice. The break in toning is distracting, but that could be due to a large picture which shows all the "imperfections."

ChuckC · April 30, 2005 12:52AM

I have one with a similar toning break:

kryptonitecomics · April 30, 2005 12:57AM

As stated by others....NT all day long..clear example of bag toning and certainly worth a solid premium for the color. With that said, with the toning break instead of looking at multiples of guide like maybe 5X - 10X's .....I would think that coin would go for somewhere around the 3X-4X range......maybe a little less.

Still all in all...I really like the coin and the break would not keep me from purchasing the coin if the price was right. Congrats!!!

mgoodm3 · April 30, 2005 1:27AM

I don't mind the toning break at all.

CarlWohlforth · April 30, 2005 1:47AM

There are some cool toned Morgans in this thread! I like the subject coin even with the toning break. It might even hurt the price enough to make it affordable to me.

magicsteve · April 30, 2005 2:11AM

To arrive at a valuation, I would try to quantify the condition of the coin. I will offer an example, however the scale of values should be allocated by someone with a bit more market savvy than I have.

Certified (and solid for the grade) white coin (in MS-65) should be worth $125 to $160, depending.
Super attractive colors (as is the case in front of us covering the entire obverse (has been suggested by kryptonitecomics to be 5X to 10X (I would subscribe to the high end of the range or beyond). For arguments sake, let us use $1,500.
Lastly, take a coin with 1/2 of the obverse was toned as we have here, and assume the top half is white and lustrous, the bottom retaining the toning we are all admiring. What is that coin worth?
I don't think it is important to come up with a number, rather, mark that number with a variable 'B'. We are starting to put together a scale something like this:
$125/$160........................................................... 'B'........................................................................$1,500
I submit the the present piece under discussion belongs somewhere inbetween 'B' and $1,500, probably closer to $1,500. Given that 80% plus of the toning is present would bode well for high valuation , detracted a bit by the location of the main plume. This mathematical approach is far from rigorous, but a bit more intellectual than a guess. Would anyone be kind enough to fill in the blanks?

DorkGirl · April 30, 2005 2:27AM

magicsteve. Nice analytical and intellectual approach. But, it has been my observation that you can throw that out the window when there are amazing toned coins involved

poorguy · April 30, 2005 2:28AM

These "toning breaks" are really not toning breaks though. They are extremely thick areas that completely dull out any luster where the grey area is so it not only disrupts the color but also the cartwheel luster which when looking straight on is a dull "streak" across the coin. This may also detract from the eye appeal as it effects the viewing pleasure of not just the color but also the luster.

Here's another one with dulled out areas but they happen to be sort of a mauve color and not in a streaked pattern. These "dead areas" on this coin most likely weren't caused by the same thing that the ones above were caused by but it has the same effect on the color and the luster. Looking straight on it seems to be almost a matte surface over the mauve areas. Everywhere else there is cool color with excellent luster.

magicsteve · April 30, 2005 3:33AM

Thank you, Becky, I agree with you in principal ; surely you are correct given extremely attractive toned coins in general, however this discussion is about a specific coin with flaws and beauty that we all can appreciate. Given the select subject, perhaps the quantified approach is justified. The reason I am suggesting this is that the end points of the scale are known, that is one end is a bright white MS-65 dollar (common date and certified) and the other end is this very same coin without the "streaks", that is 100% toned with the toning we are admiriing. The solution I offer is limited to this strict interpretation. Can we apply the mathematical aprroach now??
By the way, I would submit that the relationship between "B" and the endpoint may and may not be linear, but for ease of digestion, we might assume that. Possibly an incremental 1% less steaking increases valuation by 3%. Or some such.

CarlWohlforth · April 30, 2005 3:54AM

Welcome magicsteve!

I appreciate a mathamatical approach to valuing the coin. However the line between $160 and $1,500 is not a straight one. As we approach perfection the curve steepens sharply. So the value would drop dramatically if there is a slight flaw.

This is similar to grade rarity. The tiniest flaw that brings a coin down one miniscule point can reduce the value of the coin by %50 more more. I would guess this coin is closer to $160 than $1,500. But then again I am not an expert in A Box color coins like some of the other posters here are.

DorkGirl · April 30, 2005 4:15AM

magicsteve,

I do love the premise you are making, maybe the price is quantifiable by your method, maybe not, either way, I find it extremely entertaining. I believe that it is impossible to apply strict mathmatical solutions when dealing with such unlogical and unqualifiable things as eye appeal. As you know, one man's trash......

Are you a mathmatics professor by any chance?

Wolf359 · April 30, 2005 4:22AM

Doesn't look like natural toning at all. Yeech.

JoshL · April 30, 2005 5:54AM

I have a ton of toned Morgans and this one raises some flags with me. It might not be AT but I would have concerns. Interesting discussion on it.

TONEDDOLLARS · April 30, 2005 6:49AM

JoshL,
I have seen this coin in person and it is NT (as much as one can tell AT from NT)

roadrunner · April 30, 2005 7:47AM

A dead patch of luster is a serious problem for me. If you are talking an MS65 bust half no one wants to see a dead patch of any size across the coin. Morgans are known for great luster and cartwheel.
I'd probably say the coin is worth far closer to the $160 level as I'd have to drop it part of a grade for the luster. Once a coin has below average luster, it is hard to alter that with other attributes.
Then again we have TPG's that grade MS65 silver type coins where the fields are 75% moth-eaten. But because they are pretty or have nice peripheral toning, they give leeway even though the fields merit a MS61 or 62 grade.

roadrunner

Amazing Bag Toned 1879 s Morgan: How much does a toning break hurt?

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