Does this look like shill bidding to you guys?

Russ · April 25, 2005 9:15AM

http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidItems&userid=9colors&completed=1&all=1&rows=200&sort=3

What do you guys think?

Russ, NCNE

Baley · April 25, 2005 9:19AM

Bids on coins in all denominations, from any country, but from only one seller? Bids are usually near the top, only wins very occasionally, usually only increases the final price? Feedback is private? hmmmm..

100proof1957 · April 25, 2005 9:20AM

Nah, 9 colors is just a diverse collector !

p8nt · April 25, 2005 9:20AM

I would vote yes. That person only bids on the one sellers auctions and if thats not enough, the seller and bidder have a strange bidding and listing fetish, they only bid or buy every 7 days...

rainbowroosie · April 25, 2005 9:23AM

Why shill bid on $16-20 lots???... Especially when you pay off your consigners the full amount for them??... No mystery here, it's Mr D's favorite customer.

K6AZ · April 25, 2005 9:25AM

Of course it's a shill. This seller has been documented several times here having consignors bidding on their own coins.

NumisMe · April 25, 2005 9:25AM

Pretty hard to tell on this one.

217 Total Positives
20 Unique
0 Negs

Usually only 1 or 2 bids per auction.

Could go either way on this one...

K6AZ · April 25, 2005 9:26AM

Eight minutes. I expected to see that much sooner.

DHeath · April 25, 2005 9:26AM

+1 for Laura.

eagle7 · April 25, 2005 9:27AM

Im not saying it is or it isnt, all I will say is two things. I never buy from this person, the bids always go way to high for what you get. And the other thing is EBAY dont care about shill bidding, it just increases the money they make. That is just a personal opinion and is purely subjective, no personal knowledge of that, just a wild guess on my part.

K6AZ · April 25, 2005 9:30AM

<< Im not saying it is or it isnt, all I will say is two things. I never buy from this person, the bids always go way to high for what you get. And the other thing is EBAY dont care about shill bidding, it just increases the money they make. That is just a personal opinion and is purely subjective, no personal knowledge of that, just a wild guess on my part.

>>

Sir, you just hit the nail on the head.

braddick · April 25, 2005 9:31AM

I've spoken on the phone with that bidder and he is no shill bidder to greattoning, or to anyone.

He buys what he likes and he likes what he sees with Richard's auctions.

Russ · April 25, 2005 9:32AM

<< Why shill bid on $16-20 lots???... Especially when you pay off your consigners the full amount for them??... No mystery here, it's Mr D's favorite customer. >>

He's bid in 169 auctions over the last 30 days - all from the same seller. You have to admit that at the very least it looks suspicious. I don't know if it's a shill, but I do know that if this were some unknown eBay schmuck this entire forum would be on them like Roseanne Barr on a Twinkie.

Russ, NCNE

pharmer · April 25, 2005 9:32AM

Bids early on at a low price, then bids moon money when he wants to win, does not bid close to the top or the end unless it is the winning bid. I have been following very closely since October, when it first caught my attention. Still don't know what to make of it.

rainbowroosie · April 25, 2005 9:37AM

Again, the $16-20 coins were my coins and Dick paid me the full amount....what could he possibly profit from shill bidding those low priced coins??? .....In particular, why shill bid a $2550 modern commem "away from" a $2500 cash buyer like Adrian??? This simply does NOT make sense???

K6AZ · April 25, 2005 9:38AM

<< I've spoken on the phone with that bidder and he is no shill bidder to greattoning, or to anyone.

He buys what he likes and he likes what he sees with Richard's auctions. >>

I don't buy it Pat. There are some other good sellers of toned material on eBay. 169 auctions, all with one seller. No one is that loyal without there being more behind the scenes.

tlhoy · April 25, 2005 9:44AM

Now most of you guys know I live to find frauds on eBay, but I'm going to have to say it.
I haven't done a complete investigation but so far, I can find NO evidence of shill bidding here.
It does raise flags and rings the alarm, but 9colors looks legit to me.
I will continue to look at this though.

RYK · April 25, 2005 9:56AM

Looks like it to me.

stman · April 25, 2005 10:38AM

<< but I do know that if this were some unknown eBay schmuck this entire forum would be on them like Roseanne Barr on a Twinkie. >>

AGREED! But as "Denny Crane" would say.... "So what do you mean?"

braddick · April 25, 2005 11:40AM

<< 

<< I've spoken on the phone with that bidder and he is no shill bidder to greattoning, or to anyone.

He buys what he likes and he likes what he sees with Richard's auctions. >>

I don't buy it Pat. There are some other good sellers of toned material on eBay. 169 auctions, all with one seller. No one is that loyal without there being more behind the scenes. >>

Eric, he's purchased off of eBay from me too. In fact, during one bid run on a somewhat expensive coin I contacted him (because the private feedback made me nervous). I can tell you he is loyal and appreciates the coins Richard sells.

Why buy from anyone else, generally, if you have a source that fits your needs and wants?

There's a lot of shananigans going on eBay but you won't find it with this bidder. And, with that said, don't forget the Seller here. Richard is as honest as the day is long and he personally wouldn't put up with any tomfoolery from bidders.

K6AZ · April 25, 2005 11:46AM

<< There's a lot of shananigans going on eBay but you won't find it with this bidder. And, with that said, don't forget the Seller here. Richard is as honest as the day is long and he personally wouldn't put up with any tomfoolery from bidders. >>

Pat, you've been on this board longer than I have. If the above statement is your honest opinion, then either you have missed several interesting threads here over the years, or you don't recall them.

braddick · April 25, 2005 11:53AM

Eric, It's not a question of missing the Threads (I haven't) or even not recalling them (I do). It's having first hand experience dealing with Richard. I've met him and spent time with him on more than one occasion. I've dealt with him professionally, having consigned many, many packages to him over the last two or three years. I've also gotten to know him personally. Not just coins, but life experiences.

He's a good man. Nothing I've read here, on this forum, can detract from that experience.

I'm sure if you had the same experiences with him Eric as I have, it would be you defending him right now.

K6AZ · April 25, 2005 11:56AM

Pat, if that's your opinion fine. But I'm sorry, I know of at least two cases where people who consigned coins to him bid on their own coins, and he did not cancel the bids. That is why I would never do business with him, and I find this bidder mentioned highly suspect.

Now if you want to continue, I'll name the two board members and resurrect the threads if you would like. You don't see any problem with a consignor bidding on their own coins?

braddick · April 25, 2005 12:04PM

<< Pat, if that's your opinion fine. But I'm sorry, I know of at least two cases where people who consigned coins to him bid on their own coins, and he did not cancel the bids. That is why I would never do business with him, and I find this bidder mentioned highly suspect. Now if you want to continue, I'll name the two board members and resurrect the threads if you would like. You don't see any problem with a consignor bidding on their own coins? >>

I absolutely do have a problem with consigners bidding on their own coins. I know Richard does too. I'm not convinced, outside of strongly discouraging the act, he can perform any hurculean acts to prevent it. It's tough policing the minds and actions of all the various consigners he may get.

How do others here, Members of this Forum (some of which are contributors of this thread!), respond when they suspect consigners are bidding on their own coins?
I'd like to read how progressive others are in this arena before condemning and singling out one.

K6AZ · April 25, 2005 12:11PM

Pat, we've talked enough that you know I have zero tolerance for anything that even remotely resembles unethical practices in the coin business. He could easily stop it by setting up a policy to not allow it, and canceling any bids from consignors.

Once again we seem to be heading in the direction of it's a board member, let it slide. I would expect a respected board member to be above any unethical behaviour, but it seems there is a double standard. If this had been someone who doesn't post here, they would have been torn to shreds.

braddick · April 25, 2005 12:14PM

Eric,
Much of what you've stated I have no argument for. I agree with you (outside of what I've stated above).

PS: PM sent

TUMUSS · April 25, 2005 12:28PM

MrD · April 25, 2005 11:37PM

I will tell all that are interested that 9 colors is not a shill bidder. I know that many of you wont take this for face value but there is little I can do about that. Shill bidding is to make items sell for more money. He doesn't bid that way. Sometimes he bids low to mark items but when he wants something he bids strong and usally wins. Why would a shill bidder use a sniping program? It is very observant of you good members of the forums to see that he only bidds on my auctions. In simple words he is satisfied dealing with me. You can't tell me that some of the dealers have customers that only buy or mainly buy from them.

skerke · April 26, 2005 1:20AM

My two cents.

Suspicious yes, detrimental, not really. I reviewed the winning bids on auction he/she did not win. Most had several other bidders ahead of him/her and all went for more money. Perhaps a marketing ploy to just show some interest in the coin. A serious ebayer, would probably dig into the auctio a bit revewing deefback/o ther sale items and probably back off form the seller.

If they do not have a relationship greatoning should get a restraining order as this bidder is stalking them. It is very odd and unlikely that someone would only ever bid on coins from one buyer, but, stranger things have happened.

It's a problem when, he/she is either bids up, then retracts (to sniff ou tht ehigh bids) remember ebay does not let you rebid if your in second place and the first place bidder retracts. Your previous high bid is now known to anyone and ripe for a nother user id to come by at last minute and get your top dollar.

Most of the buyers were pleased with there purchases so only suspicious weird, not a true shill.

skerke

Does this look like shill bidding to you guys?

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