Eliasberg Auction Wins

pf70collector · April 24, 2005 10:17AM

Overall I am very pleased with my wins. It was total warfare out there and there were a lot of aggressive bidders to contend with.
This is one of my favorites of all the lots I won. Lot 1677 I might have won more of this type if my bids made it in time.

I had an additional 8 lots in which my max bids were higher than the hammer price. I wonder how many bids did not make it in time in this auction. I believe quite a few. The bidding was quite fierce on some of my lots and the only way I could win them was to bid sometimes in real time with a 30 second window or less in which to bid. Even with cable some of my bids did not arrive in time. If I really wanted the coin bad enough I bid very aggressively with a max bid that I felt confident would win the coin and in some instances it did. I was watching this auction from start to finish starting 10 AM Monday morning to 12:45 AM Tuesday morning and again Tuesday most of the day. This was my first major auction that I bidded on and I believe I did very well considering how popular this auction was.

I have been pondering whether I want to leave the coins raw or have them holdered and have decided to put them in NGC Slabs. The reason more than anything is for preservation. I can always crack them out later since I would still have the photo certificates but most likely I will not crack them out. I have to say that this auction has been the highlight of my short collecting career. Here's another lot I won and I like because my roots are from Czecholslovakia being first generation born here in the U.S.Lot 110

I am reluctant to post all my wins here and was wondering if there were any other forum members who won any lots on this auction.
I guess I would feel more comfortable if there were more members who would post their winnings. Just dont want to stand out in the crowd I guess, but then again its seems that watching this forum I don't think most members want to talk about their winnings which is quite understandable. But this forum for me is about sharing your experience and this is the only place in which I have a common bond with my fellow collectors.

I know for sure that this auction has influenced my collecting habits and I will not ignore world coins anymore. For the first year and a half since I have been collecting my focus will not be just on U.S. coins. The coins I won have special meaning to me because I am a history buff and to own these coins allows me to experience a direct link with with the past. I won other lots including coins of Nicholas II(the last czar of Russia) Elizabeth of Russia, Queen Victoria of England, Napoleon of France, coins from the German States and Latin America

mrearlygold · April 24, 2005 10:20AM

I was bidding on lot 110 too

Congratulations. I was also bidding on the Polish coins and won one but lost the big one. All in all I won a number of great coins that are now impounded in my personal collection.

Tom

oreville · April 24, 2005 11:13AM

I am hesitant to discuss all of my auction wins as well since I am concerned about additional lots in which I assert that I won with higher internet bids than the hammer struck price. Conversely others may have won with higher internet bids than my in person winning bids.

pf70collector · April 24, 2005 12:39PM

I talked to Pam from ANR to address the concern about internet bids beating the hammer price and she stated the the even though your max bids are higher than the hammer price there is a point when they must close the bidding. So that is why your max bids beat the hammer price and you dont win the lot. Which makes sense to me. It would be to ANR's advantage to keep the bidding open but there must be a point when the bidding must be closed. The auction was already running very late in Session II on Monday and closed finally I think around 12:45 AM.

MrEureka · April 24, 2005 12:43PM

Here's one of my purchases. It's by far the best I've seen in 12 years of collecting the series. I figured I had no choice but to buy the coin, regardless of cost.

pf70collector · April 24, 2005 12:50PM

That is a beautiful coin. I love the entire series. I think of all the Eliasberg World coins this series appeals to me the most. I tried to bid on lot 3035 but the bidding on this one was out of my budget. I know if I had allocated more money to this auction I would have put up a fierce battle for this one. Congrats on the win.

DorkGirl · April 25, 2005 10:24AM

pf70collector, I keep seeing you say that you are going to get your coins graded, but unless I am missing something, both of the lots that you linked are already NGC graded. The first one is EF-45 (NGC), and the second MS 65 (NGC). I assumed that meant they were already graded. If they aren't, why would they put a NGC grade on the coin?

I think I won 3 coins from the auction, it shows green in my auction watch area, but I'm afraid to get too excited yet

I actually made sure that the coins I wanted were graded, some of the coins were ex-jewelry pieces and were not graded by NGC, just net graded or had a description like "vf details". Part of the allure of the coin is to have the pedigree, without it, some of it is just bullion. I will be very sad if they aren't already in NGC holders.

If I'm wrong about the NGC holder, let me know.......

RGL · April 25, 2005 10:31AM

That '23 ducat is to die for, sweet!

LeeG · April 25, 2005 11:32AM

Sorry DorkGirl, none of the coins are encapsulated. Here is the grading info from the "Terms Of Sale":

A VERY IMPORTANT NOTE ON GRADING
Muy Importante
Très Important
Sehr Wichtig
By agreement with our consignor and the Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC), all coins in the Eliasberg collection
have been assigned a numerical grade by NGC or a “details” grade by their sister firm, Numismatic Conservation
Services (NCS). Each grade is followed by either (NGC) or (NCS) to designate which firm rendered the grade opinion.
Those coins graded by NCS have been assigned a grade determination based upon their sharpness, but all have some
manner of defect that prevents NGC from assigning a numerical grade – f laws like tooling, heavy cleaning, holes, use
in jewelry, etc. In the case of contemporary circulating counterfeits or unusual types (such as bullet money, pre-1870 Japanese, and other oddly shaped pieces) we have assigned our own grade designation. None of the coins in the Eliasberg collection have been encapsulated; they have merely been graded by NGC/NCS. Likewise, none of the coins graded by NCS have been “conserved” or treated in any way. For those customers who prefer certified coins and would like to have their Eliasberg purchases encapsulated by NGC/NCS after the sale, NGC will charge only a modest ($10) fee for putting the coin in their holder if submitted in the original sealed Eliasberg plastic envelope.

DorkGirl · April 25, 2005 11:46AM

Thanks Lee, I thought I had read everything there was to read about that auction, I guess I missed that part

I don't really care about the grades, just the pedigree, I guess I'll have to see what the plastic envelopes look like.........

pf70collector · April 25, 2005 9:50PM

Dorkgirl,
If your bids are in the winning column than you won those lots.
Please remember that the plastic enevelopes in which the coins come in from ANR are not made for long term storage. I have decided to pay the $10.00 extra fee plus $5.00 to ANR to have them directly shipped to NGC and then sent to me slabbed from NGC. This saves me shipping and insurance but more importantly a less likely chance that they will be lost or stolen in transit because of just having two shipments instead of three. The one disadvantage is that I will not see them raw but the less time they are in the hands of the USPS the better chance I will recieve them.

Oldnewbie · April 25, 2005 10:09PM

<< <i> I have decided to pay the $10.00 extra fee plus $5.00 to ANR to have them directly shipped to NGC and then sent to me slabbed from NGC. >>

I would like to do this also. Is there anything extra I need to do other than note it on my invoice?

pf70collector · April 25, 2005 10:15PM

I would note it on your invoice since there is no place on the invoice that mentions this service. I spoke to Pam about this at ANR last week and I will be calling her again just to confirm today. So that is a $15.00 fee you must pay to ANR which includes the $10.00 slab fee and ANR's $5 fee per coin.

Oldnewbie · April 25, 2005 10:41PM

Thanks PF. Here is the Norwegian 20 Kroner I bought. I know nothing about "Darkside" stuff, so I bought something from my familys homeland. It didn't cost me an arm and leg either. It's AU58.

Photos from ANR....

MrEureka · April 25, 2005 11:22PM

Here's Laura's Brasher-regulated Guinea:

tradedollarnut · April 25, 2005 11:31PM

Very cool, Andy. My grandfather just gave me one of those in silver. Didn't know that gold one existed or you'd have been in trouble!

Regulated · April 26, 2005 7:33AM

My favorite purchase was lot #3012 (the Standish Barry Doubloon) - probably a bargain at 3X the price - I wish I was bright enough to post the picture.

Russ · April 26, 2005 8:03AM

<< <i>My favorite purchase was lot #3012 (the Standish Barry Doubloon) >>

HOLY CRAP!!!!!

Russ, NCNE

DorkGirl · April 26, 2005 8:44AM

Got my invoice today

Here are my new coins........

I think that you guys have talked me into the slabbing too. Thanks for the help!!

oreville · April 26, 2005 9:23AM

Here are mine (sorry for the long post...I will move these to a separate thread if necessary):

Constantine IX (A.D. 1042-1055). AV Histamenon Nomisma. Constantinople.
4.41 grams, 25.60 mm. Obv Seated figure of Christ, facing, nimbus cruciger behind, holding the Book of Gospels, r. hand raised in benediction. Rev Facing crowned bust of Constantine IX, wearing loros, holding labarum and globus cruciger. Shifted strike, holed and plugged near edge, otherwise EF. ($40-60 Estimate) Sold for $230 including the buyer's 15% fee.

1825 (A) 20 francs. Paris mint. Fr-549, Gadoury-241. AU-58 (NGC).
6.43 grams, 21.00 mm. Head to right, legends around / denomination in wreath, legends and date around. Medium yellow gold with lustre in the protected areas and splashes of deeper toning. ($90-150) Sold for $276.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

France. Multiple coin lot.
* 1859 (BB) 20 francs. Fr-574. VF-30 (NGC). 6.40 grams, 21.20 mm. Types as above * 1859 (A) 5 francs. Fr-578a. VF-20 (NGC). 1.57 grams, 16.70 mm. Types as above * 1860 (BB) 10 francs. Fr-576a. EF details (NCS). 1.22 grams, 18.90 mm. Types as above 1860 (A) 20 francs. Fr-573. EF-45 (NGC). 6.41 grams, 21.10 mm. Types as above * 1860 (BB) 20 francs. Fr-574. VF-30 (NGC). 6.42 grams, 21.20 mm. Types as above. (Total: 5 pieces) ($300-450) Solf for $437.
Purchased from Stack’s, August 27, 1962.

1885 ducat. Fr-493. AU-58 (NGC).
3.49 grams, 19.90 mm. Types as above. Lustrous medium gold. ($60-90) Sold for $116.

Canada. 1912 5 dollars. Fr-4. AU-58 (NGC).
8.37 grams, 21.60 mm. Types as above. Light yellow gold. Much lustre remains on the obverse and nearly all is still seen on the reverse. ($150-250) Sold for $328 (too much money).
Purchased from John Zug, October 12, 1945.

Canada. 1913 5 dollars. Fr-4. AU-58 (NGC).
8.37 grams, 21.60 mm. Types as above. Yellow-orange gold. Much lustre remains, the reverse being nearly intact in this regard.
($150-250) Sold for $322.

1826 JM 1/2 escudo. Cuzco mint. Fr-60. AU details (NCS).
1.70 grams, 14.10 mm. Llama and tree in quadrants above cornucopia / wreath with date and mint around. Deep yellow gold, test cut on edge near 1:00 relative to the obverse. ($125-225) Sold for $176.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

Bolivia. 1856 FP 1 escudo. Potosi mint. Fr-35. EF-40 (NGC). (Oh really????)
3.32 grams, 18.50 mm. Types as above. Medium gold, a few light edge bruises and some remaining lustre. ($100-200) Sold for $230.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

Peru.1965 50 soles. Fr-79. MS-66 (NGC).
23.41 grams, 29.80 mm. Types as above. Frosty orange gold. ($250-400) Sold for $690.

Mexico. 1863 CH 1/2 escudo. Mexico City mint. Fr-107. MS-62 (NGC).
1.67 grams, 14.10 mm. Types as above. Pale yellow gold, much lustre remaining. Tiny reverse planchet imperfections and adjustment marks, as made. ($100-200) Sold for $253. From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942

Mexico. 1874 M 1 peso. Mexico City mint. Fr-157. MS-64 (NGC).
1.68 grams, 14.10 mm. Types as above. Bright yellow gold with much reflectivity on both sides. ($90-150) Sold for $184.
Purchased from John Zug, December 1943.

Mexico. Mexico. Multiple coin lot. * 1878 M 1 peso. Fr-157. AU details (NCS). 1.68 grams, 14.20 mm. Types as above. Mount removed * 1879 M 1 peso. Fr-157. AU-58 (NGC). 1.69 grams, 14.20 mm. Types as above. Cleaned. (Total: 2 pieces) ($100-200) Sold for $161.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.From Stack's sale of the Col. James W. Flanagan Collection, March 1944, Lot 307.

Mexico. 1899 M 1 peso. Mexico City mint. Fr-157. MS-64 (NGC).
1.66 grams, 14.60 mm. Types as above. Medium gold, somewhat lustrous. ($80-130) Sold for $172.50.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

Mexico. 1900 M 1 peso. Mexico City mint. Fr-157. MS-63 (NGC).
1.67 grams, 14.50 mm. Type as above / wreath around denomination. Lustrous yellow gold. ($80-130) Sold for $161.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942

Mexico. 1902 Q 1 peso. Culiacan mint. Fr-160. MS-63 (NGC).
14.40 grams, 1.69 mm. Types as above. Lustrous yellow gold, some minor adjustment marks at the rims. ($90-150) Sold for $149.50.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

Mexico. 1904 M 1 peso. Mexico City mint. Fr-157. MS-66 (NGC).
1.68 grams, 14.40 mm. Type as above / wreath around denomination. Highly lustrous light yellow gold. ($90-150) Sold for $218.50.
From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

Wekar · April 26, 2005 10:42AM

never apologize for posting pics to a thread, thanks oreville. if you don't mind, how close were the estimates to the hammer price? Cool coins

oreville · April 26, 2005 11:20AM

Wekar: I posted the actual purchase price next to the estimates. In some cases, prices were within estimates. The highest ratio of price paid to estimate was for a holed Byzantine coin at almost 4X the high estimate (Must have been the Pope effect????). In no other case was the price paid more than 2X high estimate.

MrEureka wrested another (or two?) Mexican 1 Peso gold coins from me.

MrEureka · April 26, 2005 11:28AM

MrEureka wrested another (or two?) Mexican 1 Peso gold coins from me.

Oreville - Feel free to wrest them back. All it takes is money!

pf70collector · April 26, 2005 1:09PM

Here are my wins:

1923 ducat. Fr-2. MS-65 (NGC).

3.49 grams, 19.90 mm. Half-figure of St. Wenceslas, legends around / arms, legends and date around. Fully lustrous medium yellow gold. A gem. ($60-90)

Purchased from F.K. Saab, April 18, 1946.

1803 (A) (L'an 12) 40 francs. Paris mint. Fr-479, Gadoury-1080. EF-45 (NGC).

12.88 grams, 26.00 mm. Bust of Napoleon to left, legends around / denomination in wreath, legends and date around. Deep yellow gold with darker toning at the rims. Even in appearance. ($150-250)

Purchased from John Zug, January, 1947.

1866 (BB) 20 francs. Fr-585, Gadoury-248. MS-63 (NGC).

6.43 grams, 21.10 mm. Types as above. Frosty medium gold with excellent lustre. ($80-130)

From B. Max Mehl's sale of the Belden Roach Collection, February 1944, Lot 1413.

1869 (BB) 20 francs. Strasbourg mint. Fr-585, Gadoury-248. MS-63 (NGC).

6.45 grams, 21.00 mm. Types as above. Highly lustrous medium gold with some deeper toning. ($90-150)

1657 ducat. Fr-3200, FuS-1754. EF-45 (NGC).

3.41 grams, 22.10 mm. Facing half-figures of Georg, Ludwig, and Christian in circle, legends around / arms in circle with three helmets, legends and date around. Light yellow gold with traces of lustre. A popular type. ($500-800)

From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

1756 2 roubles. Moscow mint. Fr-115, Severin-204. EF-40 (NGC).

3.22 grams, 17.90 mm. Types as above. Medium yellow gold, some dirt among the letters, a few trivial hairlines. Attractive and boasting a good provenance. ($300-500)

From Kende Galleries' sale of the Bespalov collection, March 1944.

1896 10 pesos. Fr-52. MS-64 (NGC).

5.99 grams, 20.90 mm. Draped bust of Liberty to left, legends around / similar type to above. Lustrous yellow gold. Light adjustment marks are detected on the obverse, mostly at rims but still very faint. ($80-130)

From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

1853 10,000 reis. Fr-122. MS-62 (NGC).

8.94 grams, 22.80 mm. Types as above. Light yellow gold, hairlines on the obverse. Small reverse scratch. ($250-400)

From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

1848 JB 1/2 escudo. CR mint. Fr-5. EF-45 (NGC).

1.54 grams, 14.20 mm. Types as above, no counterstamp. Medium gold with deep toning. Small reverse enrustation in legend near 5:00. ($100-200)

From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

1846 R 1/2 escudo. Potosi mint. Fr-30. AU-55 (NGC).

1.68 grams, 13.30 mm. Types as above. Deep golden surfaces, planchet flaw on reverse. ($90-150)

From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

1899 10 roubles. Fr-179. AU-55 (NGC).

8.59 grams, 22.70 mm. Types as above. Light yellow gold. ($90-150)

1902 5 roubles. Fr-180, Severin-576. MS-66 (NGC).

4.30 grams, 18.60 mm. Types as above. Light yellow surfaces, richly lustrous. ($80-130)

From the Irving Moskovitz collection, via Ed Shapiro in January 1963.

1888 S sovereign. Sydney mint. Fr-19. AU-55 (NGC).

7.97 grams, 22.30 mm. Types as above. Lustrous medium gold. ($80-130)

1858 FH 8 escudos. Mexico City mint. Fr-64, Calico Onza-2033. EF-45 (NGC).

26.87 grams, 37.10 mm. Types as above. Medium gold, numeorus scattered marks and hairline scratches. ($300-450)

From B. Max Mehl’s sale of the Thomas W. Voetter Collection, January 1943, Lot 70.

MrEureka · April 26, 2005 1:17PM

I also bought this one, for resale. It's an original, maybe the only one in private hands.

1889 5 gramos. Fr-1. Choice AU.

5.01 grams, 17.80 mm. Crudely reeded edge. POPPER in central cartouche over crossed pickaxes, legends and date around / central denomination, legends around. Deep yellow gold with heavy toning highlights and some lustre. An excellent example, crude as it is, of this rare and popular issue from the man who decided to own the southernmost tip of South America in the 1880s. From the crudness of this issue, this coin was probably actually among the small number produced at El Paramo. not the later issues made at Buenos Aires. A rare and important coinage and a numismatic connection to one of the world's most famed adventurers. ($4,000-7,000)

Julius Popper is remembered as a paragon of 19th century adventuring. Born on December 15, 1857, to a family of Romanian Jewish heritage, he developed a case of wanderlust an at early age, launching a career that would explore activities in writing, inventing, engineering, and business. At age 28, attracted by the latest in a series of gold rushes, he took 50 men, mostly Austrians, to remote Tierra del Fuego, under the aegis of the Gold-Washing Company of the South or "Lavaderos de Oro del Sud."

Soon after his arrival in late 1885, in the summer season in that clime, he and his fellow adventurers struck pay dirt. News that he had found 400 pounds of the precious metal precipitated a great rush of men, including criminals, to the settlement he had founded, El Paramo. In thrilling episodes, the miscreants stole gold, disrupted good relations with the natives, then were challenged by Popper's "army" and peace was restored. Later, he went to Argentina, where he became known as a popular writer. He died under mysterious circumstances in 1893.

From the John H. Clapp Collection; Clapp estate to Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr., 1942.

Eliasberg Auction Wins

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