Curious about this. Has anyone received a Email like this ?
Hi Ken
Please be careful about all of your posts on the PCGS forum. Courtesy copies are going to my attorney's office, and we will take legal action against you if necessary.
was it from the same dealer?!?!? if so, just another reason not to use thier services....
beyond that, a threat to silence the truth is about all it amounts to - you have said nothing in this thread that is defamatory to the dealer in question - all you have done is to expose the truth.
Cecil Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!! 'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
<< <i>Curious about this. Has anyone received a Email like this ?
Hi Ken
Please be careful about all of your posts on the PCGS forum. Courtesy copies are going to my attorney's office, and we will take legal action against you if necessary.
Hmmmm....... >>
Idle threats. This guy has sunk to the bottom.
Don't waste money grading the coin -- no question it will bodybag -- don't throw good money at bad.
It looks like someone should have the ANA lower the BOOM on this turkey!!!
"Please be careful about all of your posts on the PCGS forum. Courtesy copies are going to my attorney's office, and we will take legal action against you if necessary".
His attorney will need another martini when all the posts show up.
It's a shame this situation has come to this. I know of more than a couple of forum members who have had very good experiences dealing with the Reeded Edge. I keep hoping that this was an administrative mistake made by a lackey (aka neverbe).
Just curious. Has anyone ever received a Email like this.
I'm not going to send you courtesy copies of the four different emails that I received as a result of your "anonymous post", but you can rest assured that I have sent them to my attorney. The email continues on with....I really don't want to have any further dialog about this matter. But, if my attorney needs to get ahold of you, I have furnished him with all of your particulars.
Go to the ANA and provide copies of the emails. This is ridiculous.
Shame on anyone who would wave the lawyer flag over a $100 coin.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Didn't Rob Lehman sell out? I swear I saw him behind a different table at Long Beach.
Leave an ebay neg, write the ANA, recognize that many now will not deal with such a dealer and chalk it up to experience. Pretty sad the state of affairs on ebay these days....
<< <i>I'm not going to send you courtesy copies of the four different emails that I received as a result of your "anonymous post", but you can rest assured that I have sent them to my attorney. The email continues on with....I really don't want to have any further dialog about this matter. But, if my attorney needs to get ahold of you, I have furnished him with all of your particulars. >>
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!
Hey! Are you still reading this? I'm LMAO off at you! So is everybody else! That little chest puffing is hilarious!!!!!
Warning, incoming clue! When you resort to (hollow) legal threats over a lousy $100 coin that you should have taken back you've just demonstrated to all the world how little business acumen you possess.
Ken, the images you show, if they are accurate, illustrate that you may have gotten hosed by The Reeded Edge. My one and only experience with them is documented in an NGC thread from 2003 where they sold me a coin in an NGC holder after manipulating the images, in my opinion, and then kept 10% of my purchase price upon my return of said coin.
Here is the NGC discussion of The Reeded Edge and its customer policy.
Tom as one of the respondents said in the NGC thread, I also have never seen you say anything negative about a seller. I sure wish I would have read that thread before this happened. If I would have this never would have happened. Also the photos are accurate. The coin is AU 58 wear wise and moderate to heavily hairlined on the obverse. The reverse is better but still lacking luster.
Ken, Has Mr Lehmann contacted you about accepting this coin for return? I ask because I have an email from him earlier today in which he states that he would make good on it.
If he has done so please let us know so that I may write and thank him for being a stand up guy, for sticking to his written word, both in the item's description and in this email he sent.
I've been gone all day and am just now getting around to the email I've received.
He indicated to me that he would but I cannot verify at present. Ken, what's the deal?
One of those 4 emails that someone is referring to came from me and I have absolutely no problem posting it and Mr. Lehmann's position yet I will hold off for the moment as far as sharing what Mr. Lehmann had to say, #1-out of common courtesy and #2- I want to know if he has done as he stated he would.
ok guys listen up....here is the deal on rob lehman...i have known him for years......and one thing he is not is stupid....he has known about this board from day 1 and the power of it....no way would he be so dumb as to subject himself to any of this.......but a few of his employees ...being ...well ...less than rocket scientists certainly would
i`ll bet rob takes care of it..in fact .....im sure of it
monsterman
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
<< <i>Ken, Has Mr Lehmann contacted you about accepting this coin for return? I ask because I have an email from him earlier today in which he states that he would make good on it.
If he has done so please let us know so that I may write and thank him for being a stand up guy, for sticking to his written word, both in the item's description and in this email he sent.
I've been gone all day and am just now getting around to the email I've received.
Thanks,
B00M
ttt >>
Boom
The answer is "NO" Earlier in the day, yesterday, the person that was sending the Emails to me said they were done with the dialog on this coin and that was the last I have heard from the person.
I am sorry I did not answer earlier but contrary to a certain persons belief I do not spend my whole life on the boards.
<< <i>INCREDIBLE and I just emailed him, taking him at his word that he would as he stated to me yesterday. Unbelievable!! >>
Suprised ? I'm certainly not. Its obvious that nothing will happen on this.
We will continue with this after I get a couple of "Professional Opinions" on the grade and what has happened to the coin. It may take awhile because the closest Coin Shop where I trust the dealer is 180 miles from me. By the way the opinion I will get will be from someone that has been in the business longer that 1990.
I will offer to take the coin with me and show it to "experts" (PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and/or unsuspecting dealers at the Kansas City ANA, as sort of a forum project, if you or others are interested.
sorry about your mess - you are wasting your time getting other opinions - that dime is so far from MS-64 it's painful NOR do I believe it is AU. I see a nice EF-45 at best - F it - I'd play hard ball this scum bag has no balls to further oil the fire by stating the attorney angle - POS is what he is and likely a loner on his last steps to have screwed you out of a stupid $100.
I'd forward to ANA - other than that - all elese likely a waste of time - JMHO
This just keeps getting worse. I have read all the posts and the seller tells one of us one thing "I'll take care of it" and then does nothing about it. No way has he contacted an attorney nro would an attorney waste his time over this matter. As to the coin, if it matters have it checked out by another dealer ( get a statement if you can) and I would send it in to one of the services with a letter explaining the background. Also I would definately contact ANA and file a formal complaint.
"We absolutely guarantee that any of these Mercury Dimes will grade at either PCGS, NGC or ANACS."
No ebay seller should offer this kind of "guarantee." Seller should just extend a return privilege for refund if buyer wants to return. This seller has caused himself more problems with his "absolute guarantee." What the hell was he thinking when he wrote this into his auction, is my question for him.
"Now before you call me completely dumb for buying a raw coin please consider the reasons for the purchase."
Nah, not dumb for buying a raw coin. Just don't fall for the "guarantee" line again. Otherwise, you will be sentenced to watching Forrest Gump ten times in a row.
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” — Gautama Buddha
See, this bad press about "Don't buy raw" really irks me, personally. On second thought, coversely, ( is the glass half empty or half full) I should be glad that everybody else sells such terrible raw coins because I DO NOT! All you have to do is look at the closeups I provide, read that I have an UNCONDITIONAL money back guarantee if the coin is anything less than what I say it is and then go hunt down the feedback left by the buyers of these PQ coins that WERE already in flips earmarked for grading and certification here at PCGS.
I just sold my very best 55-D Washington Quarter with an opening bid of $45. Check out the buyer's feedback. There are more....many more....take out all the expenses and I am actually making more than had I slabbed them and the customer is as happy as can be.
So all you that cannot grade a coin or make it a practice to talk out the sides of your mouths, whoever you may be....keep on selling crap thinking you've really done something when you fleece someone and just keep driving them to me where they get coins that are second to NONE, rave about them and bring their friends when they come back!!
Any question that this coin is a dog, is answered by the refusal of the seller to accept a return. If it were worth anywhere near the $100, he would simply relist it and sell to another fellow. I haven't checked whether you have left a negative, but this clearly demonstates the failure of the feedback system. Keep us updated.
I happen to be exclusively an Ebay buyer and not a seller. There have been many times I wanted to give a negative to a seller that I truly believed deserved one but I have never left one. Take for instance this current Ebay seller who failed to answer twelve emails to him; never a word from this seller when I requested registered delivery instead of priority insured and never a word asking about when I might expect my coin. Fifteen days after PayPal payment the coin arrives priority insured. The seller apologized for the late delivery saying he was busy, still not a single email from him.
In my opinion this seller should not be an Ebay Power Seller. "Ebay Power Seller", what a bunch of crap! I won hundreds of Ebay coins and this slow PayPal delivery and refusal to answer twelve emails is simply not acceptable. Now, I have to decide if I give him a negative realizing that doing so will probably result in some bulls--t negative to me. Ebay is out to lunch with their current rules on negative feedback.
What would you guys do?
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
"If you removed the coin from it's original holder,it's considered sold,so how do you not remove the coin, and send it in for a BB,to prove to them it was cleaned?"
Eggsactly (no pun intended).
Counselor: "You said, what?"
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” — Gautama Buddha
Feedback was never a point that made any difference to myself in this transaction. All I wanted was a fair shake reguarding the coin in question. Statements were entered into the auction and then not upheld or given a clear explanation of what the real meaning was. Evasion with no explanation is the mode of operation that has been used.
Another point that has baffled me was the reduction of price that the coin was sold for. In a hot market do you just reduce your original price by 20% if the coin is pristine ? Of course I did not know this had happened untill the coin was received with the sellers original price still on the flip. 25P Mercs in nice original choice condition are not easy coins to find. Maybe the seller did not know this.
and then the Choice Coin, with the reduced price, looks like this.
<< <i>Don't know for sure but I think it may be a violation of ebay policy to use another member's ID in the title of an auction. >>
It is, or even using it in the description. They call it a gratuitous listing. They ended one of mine for nailing a slimeball that sold me a harshly cleaned Bust Half that looked nothing like the image in the listing.
You could be sneaky and list it as "Reeded Edge (which is a descriptive coin term) Fugly Merc Dime Blah Blah Blah"
Edited to add: I still cannot believe that a reputable dealer who sells five figure coins is going to stiff someone for $100 on a crummy coin. Has anyone called to talk to the owner (Rob)?
Notwithstanding ebay policy, deletariously using another member's ID in an auction title is allowing the camel to stick his head into the tent. A gratuitous act indeed.
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” — Gautama Buddha
why not relist it on ebay and do a featured listing and title it something like.....
"WIN THIS CLEANED AU MERC THAT I BOUGHT AS A GEM BU FROM REEDED EDGE " (or whatever their username is)
They have definitely earned
1. negative feedback 2. complaint with your or their AG's office 3. complaint with ANA >>
Hmmm....My last Ebay Auction I put up was exactly something like your suggestion. I think I titled it " Win these Junk Dimes I won on Ebay". Then I put a picture in the description that was one of those things you take from 6 feet away. Anyway the coins were coins that the seller I bought them from called "Gem BU". The three Mercs were XF, AU and AU. These coins were bought on a No Return Auction I won, and which I knew there was no return, so I did not mention the Dog Faced Seller here. Man I have had a run of Junk on Ebay lately. I even won some trash Darkside stuff which is unusual. Most of the Darkside Ebay sellers I have run into are really quite good and honest.
By the way I am still thinking about what to do with this situation. Probably a decision will be made next week in reference to my next step. In the mean time when someone posts to this thread I will also post just so it can stick around for awhile...
I do belive the point has been made,Being vendictive will get you nowhere,and obviously will not solve the problem. I would just let it go,and not deal with this low life. Al
Needless to say I cannot say a whole bunch about this great transaction. I contacted the ANA by Email but heard not a word from them. I still have this great PQ coin in my hands and still in the original 2X2. The thought of wasteing 30 bucks to send it to PCGS is not out of the question. One thing that is for sure is that this great transaction will never be forgot. Darn am I being sarcastic. The coin is a real POS.
Made the mistake of buying one coin from them, IHC graded by PCGS. The description was of a PQ, eye-appealing coin. It is without a doubt butt ugly and the images looked very little like the coin. Sorry monsterman I got the runaround from them and will never do business with them again. It's not very often you hear me criticize a dealer on these boards but if they thought that coin was PQ they best stop selling copper and from the look of Ken's coin, silver too.
<< <i>I do belive the point has been made,Being vendictive will get you nowhere,and obviously will not solve the problem. I would just let it go,and not deal with this low life. Al >>
True Al, but if it were me, it would sure make me feel a whole lot better about being RIPPED OFF!
Make up some Neon Shirts FLM!!
Take nice pics of the coin and place it in your sig line on here with a small sentence about where you picked up that gem!
<< Thrid a guarantee was given saying that they would stand behind the coin and that it would grade at PCGS, NGC or ANACS >>
Email the seller and ask him if he is really going to insist that you go through the motions of seeing if PCGS will grade the coin (which you are apparently convinced PCGS will not do), or if he wants to make it easier for both of you and allow a return now, instead? You can also let him know that you will complain to the ANA if the coin is body-bagged and a return is not allowed.
However, before doing those things, I'd recommend that you get another person's opinion regarding whether the coin will in fact receive a no-grade at PCGS.
I'm a little late here but I'd like to throw in my 1.5 cents.
Normally, when I want to buy something---I'm a pretty easy guy to deal with. About six months ago, I left 2 phone messages on their 800 number answering machine and sent them 1 email...to buy several coins from them. Never got a response. What's up with that?
After reading this thread---I'm glad they have lousy service.
Comments
Hi Ken
Please be careful about all of your posts on the PCGS forum. Courtesy copies are going to my attorney's office, and we will take legal action against you if necessary.
Hmmmm.......
beyond that, a threat to silence the truth is about all it amounts to - you have said nothing in this thread that is defamatory to the dealer in question - all you have done is to expose the truth.
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
<< <i>Curious about this. Has anyone received a Email like this ?
Hi Ken
Please be careful about all of your posts on the PCGS forum. Courtesy copies are going to my attorney's office, and we will take legal action against you if necessary.
Hmmmm....... >>
Idle threats. This guy has sunk to the bottom.
Don't waste money grading the coin -- no question it will bodybag -- don't throw good money at bad.
It looks like someone should have the ANA lower the BOOM on this turkey!!!
"Please be careful about all of your posts on the PCGS forum. Courtesy copies are going to my attorney's office, and we will take legal action against you if necessary".
His attorney will need another martini when all the posts show up.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I'm not going to send you courtesy copies of the four different emails that I received as a result of your "anonymous post", but you can rest assured that I have sent them to my attorney. The email continues on with....I really don't want to have any further dialog about this matter. But, if my attorney needs to get ahold of you, I have furnished him with all of your particulars.
Hmmmmm.......
Shame on anyone who would wave the lawyer flag over a $100 coin.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Leave an ebay neg, write the ANA, recognize that many now will not deal with such a dealer and chalk it up to experience. Pretty sad the state of affairs on ebay these days....
<< <i>I'm not going to send you courtesy copies of the four different emails that I received as a result of your "anonymous post", but you can rest assured that I have sent them to my attorney. The email continues on with....I really don't want to have any further dialog about this matter. But, if my attorney needs to get ahold of you, I have furnished him with all of your particulars. >>
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!
Hey! Are you still reading this? I'm LMAO off at you! So is everybody else! That little chest puffing is hilarious!!!!!
Warning, incoming clue! When you resort to (hollow) legal threats over a lousy $100 coin that you should have taken back you've just demonstrated to all the world how little business acumen you possess.
Russ, NCNE
Here is the NGC discussion of The Reeded Edge and its customer policy.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Folks the Jury has reached a verdict on this.
Ken
Gets bill for 300 bucks from council for looking at 4 emails ?
Yeah like that happened !
Smoething is very wrong here,account hi-jacked ? or just a dealer gone bad ?
Maybe Sanction will take the case Pro Bono ?
Has Mr Lehmann contacted you about accepting this coin for return? I ask because I have an email from him earlier today in which he states that he would make good on it.
If he has done so please let us know so that I may write and thank him for being a stand up guy, for sticking to his written word, both in the item's description and in this email he sent.
I've been gone all day and am just now getting around to the email I've received.
Thanks,
B00M
ttt
One of those 4 emails that someone is referring to came from me and I have absolutely no problem posting it and Mr. Lehmann's position yet I will hold off for the moment as far as sharing what Mr. Lehmann had to say, #1-out of common courtesy and #2- I want to know if he has done as he stated he would.
i`ll bet rob takes care of it..in fact .....im sure of it
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
<< <i>Ken,
Has Mr Lehmann contacted you about accepting this coin for return? I ask because I have an email from him earlier today in which he states that he would make good on it.
If he has done so please let us know so that I may write and thank him for being a stand up guy, for sticking to his written word, both in the item's description and in this email he sent.
I've been gone all day and am just now getting around to the email I've received.
Thanks,
B00M
ttt >>
Boom
The answer is "NO" Earlier in the day, yesterday, the person that was sending the Emails to me said they were done with the dialog on this coin and that was the last I have heard from the person.
I am sorry I did not answer earlier but contrary to a certain persons belief I do not spend my whole life on the boards.
Ken
<< <i>INCREDIBLE and I just emailed him, taking him at his word that he would as he stated to me yesterday. Unbelievable!! >>
Suprised ? I'm certainly not. Its obvious that nothing will happen on this.
We will continue with this after I get a couple of "Professional Opinions" on the grade and what has happened to the coin. It may take awhile because the closest Coin Shop where I trust the dealer is 180 miles from me. By the way the opinion I will get will be from someone that has been in the business longer that 1990.
Ken
sorry about your mess - you are wasting your time getting other opinions - that dime is so far from MS-64 it's painful NOR do I believe it is AU. I see a nice EF-45 at best - F it - I'd play hard ball this scum bag has no balls to further oil the fire by stating the attorney angle - POS is what he is and likely a loner on his last steps to have screwed you out of a stupid $100.
I'd forward to ANA - other than that - all elese likely a waste of time - JMHO
Can you tell I'm steamed
Marc
No ebay seller should offer this kind of "guarantee." Seller should just extend a return privilege for refund if buyer wants to return. This seller has caused himself more problems with his "absolute guarantee." What the hell was he thinking when he wrote this into his auction, is my question for him.
"Now before you call me completely dumb for buying a raw coin please consider the reasons for the purchase."
Nah, not dumb for buying a raw coin. Just don't fall for the "guarantee" line again. Otherwise, you will be sentenced to watching Forrest Gump ten times in a row.
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” — Gautama Buddha
I just sold my very best 55-D Washington Quarter with an opening bid of $45. Check out the buyer's feedback. There are more....many more....take out all the expenses and I am actually making more than had I slabbed them and the customer is as happy as can be.
So all you that cannot grade a coin or make it a practice to talk out the sides of your mouths, whoever you may be....keep on selling crap thinking you've really done something when you fleece someone and just keep driving them to me where they get coins that are second to NONE, rave about them and bring their friends when they come back!!
In my opinion this seller should not be an Ebay Power Seller. "Ebay Power Seller", what a bunch of crap!
What would you guys do?
and send it in for a BB,to prove to them it was cleaned?"
Eggsactly (no pun intended).
Counselor: "You said, what?"
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” — Gautama Buddha
Another point that has baffled me was the reduction of price that the coin was sold for. In a hot market do you just reduce your original price by 20% if the coin is pristine ? Of course I did not know this had happened untill the coin was received with the sellers original price still on the flip. 25P Mercs in nice original choice condition are not easy coins to find. Maybe the seller did not know this.
and then the Choice Coin, with the reduced price, looks like this.
Ken
why not relist it on ebay and do a featured listing and title it something like.....
"WIN THIS CLEANED AU MERC THAT I BOUGHT AS A GEM BU FROM REEDED EDGE " (or whatever their username is)
They have definitely earned
1. negative feedback
2. complaint with your or their AG's office
3. complaint with ANA
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” — Gautama Buddha
<< <i>Don't know for sure but I think it may be a violation of ebay policy to use another member's ID in the title of an auction. >>
It is, or even using it in the description. They call it a gratuitous listing. They ended one of mine for nailing a slimeball that sold me a harshly cleaned Bust Half that looked nothing like the image in the listing.
Russ, NCNE
Edited to add: I still cannot believe that a reputable dealer who sells five figure coins is going to stiff someone for $100 on a crummy coin. Has anyone called to talk to the owner (Rob)?
Notwithstanding ebay policy, deletariously using another member's ID in an auction title is allowing the camel to stick his head into the tent. A gratuitous act indeed.
“We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves.” — Gautama Buddha
<< <i>Ken
why not relist it on ebay and do a featured listing and title it something like.....
"WIN THIS CLEANED AU MERC THAT I BOUGHT AS A GEM BU FROM REEDED EDGE " (or whatever their username is)
They have definitely earned
1. negative feedback
2. complaint with your or their AG's office
3. complaint with ANA >>
Hmmm....My last Ebay Auction I put up was exactly something like your suggestion. I think I titled it " Win these Junk Dimes I won on Ebay". Then I put a picture in the description that was one of those things you take from 6 feet away. Anyway the coins were coins that the seller I bought them from called "Gem BU". The three Mercs were XF, AU and AU. These coins were bought on a No Return Auction I won, and which I knew there was no return, so I did not mention the Dog Faced Seller here. Man I have had a run of Junk on Ebay lately. I even won some trash Darkside stuff which is unusual. Most of the Darkside Ebay sellers I have run into are really quite good and honest.
By the way I am still thinking about what to do with this situation. Probably a decision will be made next week in reference to my next step. In the mean time when someone posts to this thread I will also post just so it can stick around for awhile...
Ken
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Make up a BRIGHT NEON colored shirt with bold lettering on front and back stating...
"ASK ME TO SEE THE POS COIN THAT THE REEDED EDGE HOSED ME ON AND REFUSED MY RETURN"
and carry the dime with you.
I would just let it go,and not deal with this low life.
Al
Mark are you trying to get me into trouble.....
Ken
<< <i>I do belive the point has been made,Being vendictive will get you nowhere,and obviously will not solve the problem.
I would just let it go,and not deal with this low life.
Al >>
True Al, but if it were me, it would sure make me feel a whole lot better about being RIPPED OFF!
Make up some Neon Shirts FLM!!
Take nice pics of the coin and place it in your sig line on here with a small sentence about where you picked up that gem!
Email the seller and ask him if he is really going to insist that you go through the motions of seeing if PCGS will grade the coin (which you are apparently convinced PCGS will not do), or if he wants to make it easier for both of you and allow a return now, instead? You can also let him know that you will complain to the ANA if the coin is body-bagged and a return is not allowed.
However, before doing those things, I'd recommend that you get another person's opinion regarding whether the coin will in fact receive a no-grade at PCGS.
Photos of the 2006 Boston Massacre
Normally, when I want to buy something---I'm a pretty easy guy to deal with. About six months ago, I left 2 phone messages on their 800 number answering machine and sent them 1 email...to buy several coins from them. Never got a response. What's up with that?
After reading this thread---I'm glad they have lousy service.
<< <i>Mark are you trying to get me into trouble.....
Ken, shame on you for even thinking that.
After all, if I were trying to get you in trouble I'd TTT this thread (again).