Scam Alert (Siren Sound) Scam Alert (Siren Sound) Scam Alert!

RBinTex · March 26, 2005 10:58PM

LINK

stev32k · March 26, 2005 11:01PM

What's the scam?

hamiltonjh · March 26, 2005 11:01PM

what is a "Snow 9 Proof"?

Purple73 · March 26, 2005 11:07PM

Hmmmm he only accepts wire transfers for payment. I find that kinda weird.

RYK · March 26, 2005 11:09PM

Nice coin, I think I will bid on it.

Someone please find the auction from which this picture was ripped.

Purple73 · March 26, 2005 11:17PM

I emailed the dude and this is what came back.

The original message was received at Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:11:34 -0800
from sj-v3conta04.sjc.ebay.com [10.6.189.177]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<anngghhhler4@hotmail.com>
(reason: 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mx1.hotmail.com.:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable
550 5.1.1 <anngghhhler4@hotmail.com>... User unknown
<<< 503 Need Rcpt command.

Message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns; mx39.sjc.ebay.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; sj-v3conta04.sjc.ebay.com
Arrival-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:11:34 -0800

Final-Recipient: RFC822; anngghhhler4@hotmail.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; mx1.hotmail.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox
unavailable
Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:11:34 -0800

stev32k · March 26, 2005 11:26PM

The same guy has a PCGS PR70DCAM $50 gold up for auction. Link

It's also interesting that the Redbook does not list any 1856 Flying Eagle Proofs, but PCGS has graded 532 of them.

majorbigtime · March 26, 2005 11:38PM

Hey, maybe "it's a legitimate estate sale". Better ask the accented hair Board professor of all matters nuimismatic.

Looks mighty fishy to me!! And note " This is a private listing. Your identity will not be disclosed to anyone except for the seller." so you can't warn bidders.

Purple73 · March 26, 2005 11:41PM

HUH?

My redbook reads 1856 Proof 63 estmiated 2000 PF-63 price 14,000

The 1856 Flying Eagle Cent , a pattern, was made to show congress how the new cent would look. Additional proof pieces were struck for sale for collectors. It's believed that 1500-2500 pieces were struck in all. These have been collected as regular issues because of their widespread popularity. A few 1856 Eagle cent pieces probably went into circulation during the Civil War.

Furthermore, Some 1858 -dated cents have been altered into 1856. They are easy to spot because the shape of the 5 is different on the 1858 than it is on the 1856.

hamiltonjh · March 26, 2005 11:44PM

Hey Purp, did you forward that info (no email) to eBay?

MAD4MORGANS · March 26, 2005 11:44PM

I sent a "Contact Member" eBay e-mail to the seller asking this:
Q]I didn't see the PCGS holder in your photo. Please indicate what company PCGS stands for and the serial number on the holder. A photo of the holdered coin would be much better. Please understand I am a little cautious and will need some assurance before I bid. Adding this photo to your auction would also assure others of the coins authenticity.
Thanks for your understanding.

Let's see what kind of reply I get.

I also didn't see any reference to the sellers "normal" e-mail address in his ad. So I'm not sure if the Hotmail address in the post above is valid.

I personally don't believe in bidding on any "Private" auctions or if the seller has hidden his feedback ratings.

stev32k · March 26, 2005 11:47PM

<<My redbook reads 1856 Proof 63 estmiated 2000 PF-63 price 14,000>>

You're right. I was looking for the proof numbers in parenthesis. Sorry.

stimmy · March 26, 2005 11:48PM

Hmmmm he only accepts wire transfers for payment. I find that kinda weird.

He has sold two items prior and accepted Paypal and Money orders.. But not for this coin with a large expense?

Purple73 · March 26, 2005 11:49PM

Hammy!,

I emailed them again and it came back with the same thing. If someone would please Notify them I would appreciate it.

Here is the 1856 and the 1858 from coinfacts.

stev32k · March 26, 2005 11:50PM

I also sent an email via "Contact Member" and it came back undeliverable.

Purple73 · March 26, 2005 11:53PM

altered 8

MAD4MORGANS · March 26, 2005 11:58PM

NOw I see what Purple73 was talking about. I just received the eBay version of "address unknown...return to sender"

The original message was received at Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:31:13 -0800
from sj-v3conta01.sjc.ebay.com [10.6.189.174]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<anngghhhler4@hotmail.com>
(reason: 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mx3.hotmail.com.:
>>> DATA
<<< 550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable
550 5.1.1 <anngghhhler4@hotmail.com>... User unknown
<<< 503 Need Rcpt command.

stev32k · March 27, 2005 12:10AM

<< altered 8>>

Looks like it to me also. The "bulb" on the tail of the five is pretty clear.

Purple73 · March 27, 2005 12:15AM

Only thing I kinda question is the "slab" around the coin. What kind of protective holder does it look like it's in?

hamiltonjh · March 27, 2005 12:27AM

emailed eBay under the dead email rule, but it probably wont help much

Invalid and Dead Email Addresses:
On eBay, your account must always be associated with a valid email address... invalid when an email to that address bounces repeatedly.

Disciplinary action relating to an invalid email address may result in the indefinite suspension of an eBay member's account, temporary suspension, or a formal warning. eBay will consider the circumstances of an alleged offense and the user's trading records before taking action.

stev32k · March 27, 2005 12:28AM

After looking at some of the pictures on the Heritage site I'm not so sure it is an altered 8. Check these out: link 1
Link 2
Link 3

The third link especially looks like the auction picture. I guess it's possible these are altered also?

Purple73 · March 27, 2005 12:33AM

Check out the shape of the 6 , I looks a bit funny funny to me. In your links above, see how round the six is. Now take a gander at the six in the coin below it's much flatter, more oval looking rather than round. It looks like the the right side of the 8 was shaved down maybe?

***** edit to say, I'm trying to figure this out. Anyone with some experience wanna step up please!

UncleWiggly · March 27, 2005 12:35AM

I can't tell simply because I don't know enough. Looks good to me.

Jerry

MAD4MORGANS · March 27, 2005 12:47AM

Here is the link to report the seller's violation HamiltonJr mentioned in his post above-->EBay Dead and Invalid E-mail Reporting Link

The item number is 3967192294 and the sellers eBay member name is anngghhhler4 if anyone else is interested in reporting this listing violation.

-----

Reported as well!!

Purple73 · March 27, 2005 12:48AM

Hammy Pm'ed Me and Got R Done.

stev32k · March 27, 2005 12:57AM

<< Check out the shape of the 6 dude>>

No need to get defensive. I'm not challenging or contradicting your statements. Just trying to figure it out and learn as I go along. I can't really see the 6 in the auction photo well enough to tell if there is a difference or not.

ziggy29 · March 27, 2005 1:01AM

Is the ball of the '5' inside the vertical bar of that number? In an authentic 1856, if you extended an imaginary line past the vertical bar in the '5' digit, it would bisect the ball of that number.

This is a classic diagnostic for an altered 1858.

Quite honestly, I need a better closeup of the date. It doesn't look right, and it looks more like an altered 1858 than a genuine 1856 to me. If this really is a PCGS coin, I have doubts that they'd give an altered date a pass.

Purple73 · March 27, 2005 1:03AM

Hahhahaa I say dude alot...... I'm not getting defensive LOL. My words at times are very heavy and I don't realize it. This is one of those times.....lemme edit that!

MAD4MORGANS · March 27, 2005 1:07AM

Since the seller is demanding only wire transfer as a method of payment, you can report him using this link for reporting suspected fraudulent activity. This link may receive more attention from the eBay Security Center (especially high dollar items not using their Paypal service).

The item numbers are 3967192294 and 3967192948. The sellers eBay member name is anngghhhler4 if anyone else is interested in reporting this listing violation. You might help some poor saps from getting ripped off on Easter Day!!

eBay Link To Report Seller For Demanding Payment by Wire Transfer

hamiltonjh · March 27, 2005 1:10AM

Reported there too M4M

thanks!

stev32k · March 27, 2005 1:21AM

Here is an enlargement of the auction picture. Does that help any?

majorbigtime · March 27, 2005 1:24AM

Rather than get hung-up on the coin, look at the seller.

This has a bad taint to it IMO.

Purple73 · March 27, 2005 1:26AM

Hey thats a nice blowup!

ziggy29 · March 27, 2005 1:38AM

Good image. This is an altered 1858. Not only does the 6 look really funky, but:

Note how the imaginary line extending down from the vertical bar of the numeral '5' would, if extended, pass to the left of the ball of the 5. On an authentic 1856 this line would split the ball of the '5' right down the middle. Here's a real 1856 -- note how the ball of the 5 is bisected by the imaginary line. Also note the shape of the '6'.

Purple73 · March 27, 2005 1:59AM

Question now is.....what of the Slab?

ziggy29 · March 27, 2005 2:19AM

<< <i>Question now is.....what of the Slab? >>

I'm not convinced it's in PCGS plastic. Yes, what we can *see* of the holder looks like a PCGS slab, but I'd like to see the entire slab. I wonder if they could give a cert number.

Cam40 · March 29, 2005 12:27AM

does anyone know if there are any authentic pieces that have a full `5`.
or is it apart of the one and only master die so all have the funky `5`?

markglicker · March 29, 2005 12:28AM

If you look at the phoenetic spelling of the sellers name, it is Angler. Looks like he may be doing a bit of fishing.

MAD4MORGANS · March 29, 2005 8:10AM

Chalk two up for the

bad guys!!

EBAY LINK - SOMEONE GOT TAKEN FOR OVER $9K

EBAY INK-SOMEONE ELSE GOT TAKEN FOR $760-

BAD JOB EBAY!!

TWQG · March 29, 2005 8:45AM

The proof gold looks like a Heritage pic.

Rodius · March 29, 2005 9:29AM

Okay, so I wrote to this guy and here are the copies of the emails and his response. Plus a picture of the PCGS certified coin. >The Link to Ebay

I also included all the stuff that came from mail.

"no problem, this item was not sold, Since high bidder was a timewaster"

----- Original Message -----
From: "anngghhhler4 anngghhhler4" <anngghhhler4@hotmail.com>
To: <rmoore41@nycap.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 5:17 PM
Subject: RE: Question from eBay Member

> ok please see attached file
>
>
>>From: rmoore41@nycap.rr.com
>>Reply-To: rmoore41@nycap.rr.com
>>To: anngghhhler4@hotmail.com
>>Subject: Question from eBay Member
>>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:09:34 -0800
>>
>>This email was sent by an eBay member via eBay's email forwarding system.
>>If you reply to the email, your response will go directly to the member and
>>not through eBay.
>>
>>Marketplace Safety Tips:
>>http://pages.ebay.com/securitycenter
>>
>>If this email is an offer to sell an item without winning it on the eBay
>>Web site (including "second chance offers" sent through this email system)
>>please do not respond to the sender. These "off-eBay" transactions are
>>unsafe and not covered by eBay purchase protection programs.
>>
>>Never pay for your eBay item using instant cash transfer services such as
>>Western Union or MoneyGram.
>>http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/questions/moneyorder-payment.html
>>
>>These payment methods are unsafe when paying someone you do not know. If
>>this email is inappropriate or violates ebay policy, please help protect
>>other eBay community members by reporting it to us immediately.
>>http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ReportEmailAbuseshow&emaildate=2005/3/29:14:09:34&emailtype=1&trackId=720831525
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Dear anngghhhler4,
>>
>>Hello, I am interested in your Flying Eagle Cent for sale, but would like
>>to get the PCGS certification number for verification. Thanks so much.
>>Rodney
>>
>>
>>To respond to this eBay member go to:
>>http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&requested=rodiusmax&frm=-1&iid=-1&de=off&redirect=0&contactsubmit=Contact+Member
>>Thank you,
>>rodiusmax
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>eBay treats your personal information with the utmost care, and our Privacy
>>Policy is designed to protect you and your information. eBay will never ask
>>their users for personal information, such as bank account numbers, credit
>>card numbers, pin numbers, passwords, or Social Security numbers in an
>>email. For more information on how to protect your eBay password and your
>>account, please visit http://pages.ebay.com/help/account_protection.html.
>>
>>This eBay notice was sent to anngghhhler4@hotmail.com based on your eBay
>>account preferences and in accordance with our Privacy Policy. To review
>>our Privacy Policy, please visit
>>http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-priv.html. To change your
>>notification preferences, please visit:
>>http://cgi4.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?OptinLoginShow. If you would like to
>>receive this email in HTML format, click here:
>>http://cgi4.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?OptinLoginShow.
>>
>>Copyright © 2005 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved.
>>Designated trademarks and brands are the property of their respective
>>owners.
>>
>>eBay and the eBay logo are trademarks of eBay Inc.
>>
>
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Myqqy · March 29, 2005 9:37AM

So, does this mean that pcgs holderd an altered date 1858??

Deadhorse · March 29, 2005 9:37AM

<< <i>If you look at the phoenetic spelling of the sellers name, it is Angler. Looks like he may be doing a bit of fishing. >>

That's the first thing that caught my eye!

He does a couple of regular sales and them tosses the big lure. This is a rip, I'd bet anything on it.

The very nature of eBay's setup makes these kinds of fraud possible. Sombody is gonna be mighty pizzed off and have no recourse but a tax write off.

A few simple eBay rules changes would all but eliminate this sort of activity. Someday. somewhere, they are going to have to take a share of the responsibility for these things. I don't care how many lawyers they have.

There has been enough of this documented activity that somebody could write a book on it. It would probably sell well if hyped by a big publisher.

Heck, the PJD1966 saga would make a chapter all on it's own and I don't for a minute think the Savanna scammers are finished. Just laying low for a bit.

Purple73 · March 29, 2005 9:45AM

No way dude.....I still don't believe it.

Rodius · March 29, 2005 10:55AM

I hear ya!!!!!!!! This guy is a total scam artist. I am not sure where he got the coin, but I do remeber a thread about some stolen coins????? Anyway his email is legite and he has a scan of the coin. WOW, and he says that the guy he sold it to (private sale) flaked on him, so the coin is available again. Time to watch his auctions. I feel like a PI. Keep an eye on him legit or not.

fin · March 29, 2005 12:37PM

enhanced photo, imho, altered.

<< <i>aim low sheriff they're riding shetlands >>

Scam Alert (Siren Sound) Scam Alert (Siren Sound) Scam Alert!

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