DEALERS: PLEASE READ THIS SCENARIO

markglicker · March 23, 2005 12:52AM

Let us say that a collector in Cleveland dies, and leaves a nice set of Morgans, all holdered by PCGS and NGC. The set is worth about $200,000. After receiving a call from the spouse, a top dealer jumps on a plane to make an offer for the coins. The dealer though, only deals in the top 10% for the grade. Assuming that 90% of the estates coins are not in the top 10%, what does this poor dealer do? Does he only make an offer on a small part of the collection? Or does he buy all of the coins, and wholesale the lesser ones, taking a risk that they will fall into the hands of the lowly Wannabes?

JrGMan2004 · March 23, 2005 12:54AM

The Low-End coins have to go somewhere... buy the set, wholesale out the crap, make money on the good stuff... though, honestly, if I was the spouse, I would just consign the whole set to an auction house... get the most money that way... and I've told my family, that if something were to happen to me, who to contact and what to do with my collection.

paigowjohnny · March 23, 2005 1:00AM

Call Richard Nachbar

ziggy29 · March 23, 2005 1:11AM

I would guess that many dealers would buy the entire collection, cherrypick the best for their own inventory and wholesale out the rest.

ER · March 23, 2005 1:14AM

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

markglicker · March 23, 2005 1:15AM

Ahhhh....but if this dealer had been railing about the seller's of "inferior coins", would they not have an obligation to make sure that these lesser pieces did not get into the market?

ksteelheader · March 23, 2005 1:17AM

ziggy29 · March 23, 2005 1:19AM

<< <i>Ahhhh....but if this dealer had been railing about the seller's of "inferior coins", would they not have an obligation to make sure that these lesser pieces did not get into the market? >>

I don't understand that. Short of burying them in a time capsule forever -- or destroying them -- "inferior coins" (however one defines them) are part of the market, and they will be bought and sold. The question isn't whether they should be sold; the question is whether or not some hucksters will try to peddle them to uninformed collectors as choice.

Iwog · March 23, 2005 1:21AM

Coin dealers will almost always bid on an entire collection. Since they will offer this widow $20-40k for the $200,000 collection anyway, they will make a profit on the junk as well as the good coins.

Your comment about the coin dealer railing about inferior coins is just weird. All coins will end up in the market in some form unless you're advocating destroying coins that don't meet a certain standard.

markglicker · March 23, 2005 1:30AM

That is my point. There are Elite dealers who denigrate those who do not handle the top tier of coins. Who do not rub shoulders with the "respected dealers". Certainly there is a market for the middle and bottom third of a grade. And of course, honesty in representation is paramount.

pharmer · March 23, 2005 1:31AM

How is he a "poor dealer"? Money falls into his lap. Someone died. A bereaved spouse is looking for help. Certain dealers might think it's all about them. Are you thinking about recent threads?

prooflike · March 23, 2005 6:45AM

Certainly there is a market for the middle and bottom third of a grade

but those who deal in these "sub-standard" coins aren't REAL DEALERS

I think that is the point of this thread.

Note: People who deal in PCGS MS70/PR70DCAM moderns are the ones to really shun.

jdimmick · March 23, 2005 8:58AM

Exactly!

Buy the whole collection, review the collection and decide what and how the best way to maximize the return is. Some may need to be upgraded, wholesaled, auction, retailed , etc? This is where its beneficial for most collectors to deal with a large National dealer such as Legend as they have the expereince and bank roll to handle a collection of this size easily.

jim

morgannut2 · March 23, 2005 9:43AM

Essentially a top dealer is going to offer, all things being equal, some percentage less than what they either can "flip" the collection, or some discount to the time, aggrevation, and risk of having a major holder the coins, or net grade the problems that do have some rarity value. The seller doesn't have to wait 3 months to get the coins graded, then 3 months for an auction, then 3 months for payment. In a large estate, NOT waiting 8-9 months for a probate settlement IS WORTH A LOT. On the other hand, offering 20% on the dollar is an unfortunate trait of some sleasy dealers who take advantage of collectors who did not leave estates with specific valuations and/or sale instructions.

I don't see a contradiction with selling top coins and buying an estate and appropriately liquidating it.

BAJJERFAN · March 23, 2005 10:07AM

You said in your first line that it is a "nice" set implying that all of the coins are probly pretty good or better than average for the grade. Are you saying that nice common date 64's or 65's are dregs and dogs?

How do you even know that there are any low end coins in there?

JRocco · March 23, 2005 10:10AM

The point of being in business is to make money. Buy low sell high. I try to do it in the stock market constantly. Now will I be low enough to try to cheat someone selling something (in our case here- a coin) into thinking what they have is cheap crap if I know the contrary-NO ---PERIOD. Anyone who does that is low life scum- PERIOD. Of course there is a monetary difference between a buy and sell order-that's how a businessman makes money, but not by cheating someone by convincing them what they have is less than it should be worth. All these threads point in the same direction. If an old lady tries to sell you a key and you low ball her into thinking what she has is nothing than you are low life scum. Period. Bottom line- Don't be low life scum.

coinkat · March 23, 2005 10:24AM

JRocco...

well said and I could not agree with you more.

edited to add:

At some point, before you pass on, it just makes sense to sell the good stuff and not leave that to the heirs unless there is someone capable of dealing with it.

BAJJERFAN · March 23, 2005 10:28AM

Assuming the collector didn't get royally screwed on any of his purchases what is a fair price to offer for a $200K set and how was the value of $200K arrived at?

Nickelback · March 23, 2005 10:41AM

I think a person with a collection worth that much might have left directions or at least the family would have some idea of it's value. Maybe not, but regardless if I were the family I'd consign everything and if I were an interested dealer I'd purchase the whole lot.

BAJJERFAN · March 23, 2005 10:44AM

As an interested dealer what would you offer for the set?

Iwog · March 23, 2005 12:58PM

>>On the other hand, offering 20% on the dollar is an unfortunate trait of some sleasy dealers who take advantage of collectors who did not leave estates with specific valuations and/or sale instructions.<<

This is not an unfortunate trait of some sleasy dealers. This is STANDARD PRACTICE in the coin industry, in fact bragging rights in these circles go to the dealer who's made the biggest kill from the least knowlegable widow. Anyone who's tried to sell a coin to a dealer knows the phrase "how much do you want for it". Well the reason for the coin dealer asking this question is to determine how much he's able to steal the coin for. If a dealer had a set buy/sell spread, this question would have no purpose and the coin dealer would simply make an offer for the coin.

DEALERS: PLEASE READ THIS SCENARIO

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