Yet another ARTIFICIALLY FROSTED Proof Frankie! And, this one I have in-hand!
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
So, I'm imaging some coins today and come to this PCGS graded PR67CAM:
As soon as I pulled it out of the box, the alarm bells started going off. It has the telltale bluish tint to the main devices. Sure enough, when held at an angle and examined under the loupe, the frost displays the translucent characteristics of a bogus coin. At this point, I'm about 98% certain, then I check my own records only to find:
It's from the same submission as the artificially frosted PR67CAM Accented Hair I bought through Heritage about 2 1/2 years ago! This coin is cert #21037529, the Accented Hair was 21037534. This is the fourth coin I've seen from that particular submission - the other two were also Frankies.
Be careful out there!
Russ, NCNE
As soon as I pulled it out of the box, the alarm bells started going off. It has the telltale bluish tint to the main devices. Sure enough, when held at an angle and examined under the loupe, the frost displays the translucent characteristics of a bogus coin. At this point, I'm about 98% certain, then I check my own records only to find:
It's from the same submission as the artificially frosted PR67CAM Accented Hair I bought through Heritage about 2 1/2 years ago! This coin is cert #21037529, the Accented Hair was 21037534. This is the fourth coin I've seen from that particular submission - the other two were also Frankies.
Be careful out there!
Russ, NCNE
0
Comments
First POTD 9/19/05!!
Thanks for the continuing info on these bogus proofs.
They definitely have a certain 'look' to them.
<< <i>Are you going to send it back to PCGS, Russ? How do they handle these? >>
That'll be up to the owner of the coin, but the likely answer is yes. PCGS takes care of these under the grade guarantee without hesitation.
Russ, NCNE
that "frosting" looks very out of place on that coin. Even from "here" it seems to float - the way it appears on the surface just looks wrong. My .02.
Thanks,
Billy
<< <i>I think that was Russ' point.
I was agreeing with him and I thanked him, and shared my observations too - I have not seen many pics like his other than the pitiful example in the color PCGS book - sorry my words didn't meet your approval
Billy
I had to shoot the first set of images under very harsh lighting conditions to get it to show well.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>I was agreeing with him and I thanked him - I had not seen many pics like his other than the pitiful example in the color PCGS book - sorry my words didn't meet your approval. >>
I forgive you.
it still looks a bit weird - kinda smooth - on thses fake CAMS is there actual observable "frost" as would be visible on the genuine item? Or are these attempts aimed mainly at reproducing just the contrast? What is the texture of the "fake frost" under a glass?
Thanks,
Billy
<< <i>on thses fake CAMS is there actual observable "frost" as would be visible on the genuine item? >>
On all that I've seen, the perp has started with coins that have fabulous mirrors and very little if any frost on the devices. They also frost only the central devices, making no attempt at the lettering - which is another telltale sign.
<< <i>Or are these attempts aimed mainly at reproducing just the contrast? >>
What other reason would there be?
<< <i>What is the texture of the "fake frost" under a glass? >>
Smooth and translucent.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i><< Or are these attempts aimed mainly at reproducing just the contrast? >>
What other reason would there be >>
What I meant was is there any attempt to duplicate the "grain" or gentle lustre in the frost on a genuine CAM? I also wondered about the lack of frost on anything except the central devices but did not ask as everyone is so touchy today
Billy
Frosty central devices and crap on the letters with some leakage to the fields south of the Bell.
BTW, one of the things I'm going to do with it is have a little fun testing dealers at shows.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>BTW, one of the things I'm going to do with it is have a little fun testing dealers at shows. >>
Whew I'm safe, I'm not even a WANNABE!!!
Russ, NCNE
Perhaps I should also nominate you to be one of the Official PCGS Collectors Universe Numismatic Consumer Protection Ombudsmen (NCPO)
Or we could refer to you as: "Russ - Coin Examiner" sort of like Quincy - Medical Examiner...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i><< Are you going to send it back to PCGS, Russ? How do they handle these? >> >>
<< <i>That'll be up to the owner of the coin, but the likely answer is yes. PCGS takes care of these under the grade guarantee without hesitation. >>
You mean they don't sue you for doubting their honor and post your personal informaiton on the web to teach you a lesson?
I also wondered about the lack of frost on anything except the central devices but did not ask as everyone is so touchy today
Easy there Billy........
<< <i>Great thread! I'm also wondering if there will be more "decay" of the artificial frost over time- perhaps you can keep us updated Russ? >>
The answer is yes, it will continue to decay. This one is actually remarkably nice compared to the others I've seen from the submission. In fact, if you look at it directly on under normal light, it's a tough one to detect. The Accented Hair I bought was much more deteriorated, although at the time I was a major newb and it took me a while to figure that one out.
Russ, NCNE
Joe
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
Russ, NCNE
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment