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Opinions on those who "schill" bid on eBay!
dorancoins
Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭
What does everyone on this forum feel about those who "schill" bid on eBay?
DORAN COINS - On Facebook, Instagram, X (formerly Twitter), & www.dorancoins.net - UPCOMING SHOWS (tentative dates)- 2/26/2026 - Joliet, IL
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<< <i>Well, I suppose the majority of people on the forums greatly dislike the shill bidding that occurs on eBay while the few sellers on the board that practice this type of fraud are okay with the practice.
You stand correct. As I stated in the first post, "sooner or later, like a drunken samarai, he will land on his own sword!"
Shill bidding is, in my opinion, unfair and unethical. I don't do it. My items sell for what they sell for. I have never ended an auction early because I didn't get 'my price' either. Some people think it's ok on a higher priced item "to get things started", even knowing it will eventually 'get up there' - but then where do you draw the line? . . . . By not doing it at all.
So I start my auctions at a buck and with no reserve......yes I could lose my shiry, but the vast majority of the time I make good profit....you just have to be in tune with what the collecting public wants and is willing to pay. If you can do that a majority of the time, you will be successful.
I understand the idea that when I'm bidding on an auction I hate it when I get out bid, and to find later that it was by a shill bidder can really tick me off. But truthfully, only because its against the rules and I hate that I get penalized for following the rules when others don't. If shill bidding were legal, everyone would be on a level playing field. If the seller makes the mistake of shilling too high then he loses the sale because buyers would have to be careful about bidding outrageous prices out of emotion of the moment.
Just a thought, now you board wolves out there can tear me to shreds for my attempt at a progressive idea. Let the feeding begin!
(Edited for spelling)
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
K S
I sell on ebay and I have never shilled an auction or asked anyone to shill an auction for me. I also buy on ebay and will not willingly buy from sellers when I know that they use shills. I have also been screwed a couple of times by shills and have never gone back to the sellers that did that to me.
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
You protect yourself by placing snipe bids at the highest price YOU are willing to pay. No chance to have your bid chipped away at when you snipe.
As far as those that think the coins would sell cheaper if not for the shilling, I don't entirely agree. The point is that the seller was not willing to sell for the lower price. I don't agree with shilling to create a "reserve bid" but it does not affect me in the least and I would suggest that it should affect alot of you less than it does.
Stop getting worked-up over trying to "steal" something and learn what a "fair" price is and you will do just fine.
Joe. IMO
<< <i>You protect yourself by placing snipe bids at the highest price YOU are willing to pay. No chance to have your bid chipped away at when you snipe. >>
I agree. I can't say that I like shills that much, but I always snipe my max, and am happy if I win no matter who the underbidders happen to be.
some probably feel OK as long as they don't get caught.
al h.
<< <i>Frankly, I don't see all the concern about shill bidding.
You protect yourself by placing snipe bids at the highest price YOU are willing to pay. No chance to have your bid chipped away at when you snipe. >>
you miss the point of an AUCTION then. the point is that yeah, you bid the most your willing to pay, but sometimes, you get a great deal because nobody else was interested at any realistic price.
&, as an auction participant, i have the RIGHT to expect that in any given auction, there's a chance i'll get a good deal
cheapskate slimy scumball shill bidding practices TAKES AWAY that right. so yes, STEALing is taking place, ie. stealing my opportunity to occasionally get a good deal.
to turn your argument around back on you, if your gonna shill bid, then why not just start the auction out at your lowest acceptable bid??? THAT would be honest.
<< <i>As far as those that think the coins would sell cheaper if not for the shilling, I don't entirely agree. The point is that the seller was not willing to sell for the lower price. >>
so like is said, why not the seller just START AT HIS MINIMUM PRICE? instead of using scum-racket tactics???
K S
The bottom line is that it is a fact in auctions and not just Ebay. Best to just set your reserve and keep everything above board. As a bidder, Just know what you are willing to pay and bid no more.
Wilfull overgrading however is fraud. Another fact in the auction world.
I agree with those who say sniping is the best defense but of course there are those who hate snipers, again, they are usually those looking to underpay.
If you are willing to pay a fair price for an item , shill bidders and snipers shouldn't affect you at all. It's the bargain hunters who get stung the most when they waste thier time and don't get to rip anyone off.
I'd guess that a good 33% of ebayers engage in this practice.And probably all the ones that keep they're feedback private.
No karl, I understand perfectly well what an auction is supposed to be but one would just be putting their heads in the sand if they really believe that they all work that way.
What I am suggesting is if you are going to play the game, realize that there are those that don't play by the rules so you have to play in a manner that protects yourself.
To moan and groan about how the game is really played serves no purpose IMO unless you realistically believe you can stop those that don't play by the "rules". Unfortunately I think that is unrealistic so if you want to play learn how to protect yourself otherwise don't play.
Joe.
<< <i>I did a poll on it a while back. >>
well i just voted "no" on that poll! it's a shill only if your intent is not to honor the bid.
<< <i>It cannot however cause you to pay more for an item than you are willing to pay >>
but that's not why someone bids in an auction. you bid in an auction becuase, if it's a REAL auction then you MIGHT pay LESS then you are willing to pay.
THAT's the whole allure of a auction!!!
<< <i>I understand perfectly well what an auction is supposed to be but one would just be putting their heads in the sand if they really believe that they all work that way. >>
who said anything about that? i fully realize that shilling runs rampant on ebay, & that's why i don't bid on ebay anymore
but it does NOT excuse the practice in any form whatsoever, & it doesn't allow for any claims that "shilling" is the same as a "reserve", because if there's a reserve, THAT'S STATED, whereas shilling by def'n IS NOT.
<< <i>What I am suggesting is if you are going to play the game, realize that there are those that don't play by the rules so you have to play in a manner that protects yourself. >>
again, if that's the case, then STATE THE RULES. if you plan to shill bid, SAY SO. if you plan to have your uncle bid on your stuff, SAY SO. i don't mind playing by the rules, but you gotta let me know what the rules are.
<< <i>To moan and groan about how the game is really played serves no purpose IMO unless you realistically believe you can stop those that don't play by the "rules". Unfortunately I think that is unrealistic so if you want to play learn how to protect yourself otherwise don't play. >>
see prev. comment
K S
Fine, you have decided for you that you don't want to play the game.
but it does NOT excuse the practice in any form whatsoever
Again, correct. But who is trying to excuse the practice? You are aware of the practice and you solved the problem for yourself by not playing. I on the other hand am aware of the practice and play the game in a manner that protects myself.
So where is the disagreement?
Joe.
I bid to buy stuff just to make sure my competitors spend their resources to win it. When something important comes up I want them tapped out from earlier wins. Plus, I don't want stuff I own to decline in value by selling lower. It's called a THIN market....
Shill bidders & those that condone (or even those that do not condemn) the practice are the lowest of the low and terrible for the hobby!!!
Edited To Add: As for setting a VERY EARLY shill bid FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE of "protecting" oneself & avoiding the eBay reserve fees, all I can say is that it is a lesser degree of the same crime. At least then a buyer MAY not get screwed at the end paying more than they should have - it's still dishonest.
You talking to me?
I do not condone the practice, I just realize that it exists and now I have to decide I am going to deal with it. I deal with it by placing a snipe bid for the most I am willing to pay for the coin.
Yes, the buyer got the coin for $500 less than what they may have been willing to pay but still $490 (or is it $475) more than they should've paid if the auction was fair and not FRAUDULENT!!!
Yes it is fraudulent but I disagree if you think that you would have won the coin for less because the seller wasn't willing to let it sell for less. That's why he puts in a shill bid. Again, I think this tends to bother those that think they are going to rip a coin instead of paying a fair price.
Joe.
<< <i>i fully realize that shilling runs rampant on ebay, & that's why i don't bid on ebay anymore
Fine, you have decided for you that you don't want to play the game. >>
i challenge you to find even one single ebay auction where the seller clearly (or even unclearly) states his rule that he's allowed to shill bid.
again, the point is your saying it's a different set of rules, but that is false, becuase those rules would have to be explained to all the participants (bidders).
<< <i>but it does NOT excuse the practice in any form whatsoever
Again, correct. But who is trying to excuse the practice? You are aware of the practice and you solved the problem for yourself by not playing. I on the other hand am aware of the practice and play the game in a manner that protects myself. So where is the disagreement? >>
the disagreement is, your pretending there's merely a different set of "rules", which makes the shilling acceptable, but like i said, that is false because we bidders aren't seeing these rules mentioned anywhere. i'd agree w/ you 168% IF the rules were spelled out for the bidders that shill bidding might take place.
you assume that "EVERYONE" knows these rules, but that is a bogus & unfair assumption to make.
K S
Whoa, where did you ever get the idea from any of my posts that I think shill bidding is acceptable?
What I wrote is that since I realize that shill bidding exists I have devised a plan to deal with it NOT that it was an acceptable practice.
Joe.
The only difference is defined by expectations and disappointments. The dollars are the same, hence NO FRAUD has happened.
Shill bidding is, in my opinion, unfair and unethical. I don't do it. My items sell for what they sell for. I have never ended an auction early because I didn't get 'my price' either. Some people think it's ok on a higher priced item "to get things started", even knowing it will eventually 'get up there' - but then where do you draw the line? . . . . By not doing it at all.
Zero.
"What is the "financial" difference to the buyer if the item has a reserve of $1000 or if the seller "shill bids" it up to the $1000.
The only difference is defined by expectations and disappointments. The dollars are the same, hence NO FRAUD has happened."
99.9% WRONG! Read my first post. The TIMING has EVERYTHING to do with how badly the buyer can potentially get screwed and how large his potential FRAUDULENT loss can be.
I do agree however, that if the $1,000 shill bid is placed at the VERY outset of the auction it acts more like a reserve - assuming that that is the ONLY shill activity for that particular auction.