WARNING: THIS THREAD IS ABOUT HERITAGE LIGHT BACKS

highend · February 26, 2005 7:21AM

i just culled my second case for white backs, it seem that John Basilones list of 220 stands. no additions to report.

Stone193 · February 26, 2005 7:25AM

<< i just culled my second case for white backs, it seem that John Basilones list of 220 stands. no additions to report. >>

Highend
What's your take? Do I have to do the 220 light backs to call it a legitimate master set?

your friend
Mike

highend · February 26, 2005 9:20AM

mike, i guess it's more of a personal preference type of thing. i can't see a set complete with all the pose/uniform variations, NAP's, THN's not being considered a master set. Even though with the 2001 set the master set includes both black and red blacks from 1-80.
i have yet to decide if i'm going to put my light backs in my book or just box them.
i'm curious to see what others think about this.
if you decide to do all the light backs LMK, i have a lot of dupes....jim

WinPitcher · February 26, 2005 9:49AM

hmmm.....my take? you need the different backs too.

Gemmy10 · February 26, 2005 11:48AM

Are any of you guys sure that these were meant to be like this? Maybe they are just a printing problem. It seems a weird thing for Topps to do.

WinPitcher · February 26, 2005 11:59AM

Of course they were meant to be like that. 1956 topps are loaded with back variations. Topps is just repeating itself.

sagard · February 26, 2005 12:00PM

<< Are any of you guys sure that these were meant to be like this? Maybe they are just a printing problem. It seems a weird thing for Topps to do. >>

They did it in 1956. Do you really think it's a coincidence?

easttexascardsandgames · February 26, 2005 1:17PM

Has anybody checked to see if the card numbers match the card numbers that had known back variations in the original set.

Also all the Hobby packs I have opened have yet to reveal a white-back.

WinPitcher · February 26, 2005 1:30PM

East texas off the top of my head the white variety for 56 topps was card 1 -160 (?) here it is 220 cards, not sure if the first 160 have that variety but from what I have read no.

easttexascardsandgames · February 26, 2005 1:33PM

OK, that was a theory that came to mind about that set.

Stone193 · February 26, 2005 1:39PM

Highend
Thanx for the offer - I will look into it after my Master Set* is complete.

I think the light backs were intentional and they are relying on the drive of the heritage collectors to instinctively collect all variants.

Collectors are driven people and they are relying on that character trait. If we have an "itch"...we scratch it!

John Basilone has listed the total number of whites at 220 - that's a considerable amount of extra cards to collect! I found zero white/lights in my hobby boxes - but have found them in retail.

Consider this part of the challenge and fun of working on the set this year.

Having said that, I will be inviting Topps to my whine and cheesefest having to do with the change in auto ratios, no box toppers and the quality issue once again. It has been going on since the 03 set for me. Did not remember it being this bad in 01 and 02 sets.

later
your friend
Mike

joestalin · February 26, 2005 1:53PM

the sad thing is, we know more here about the light backs than topps and beckett combined!

Anyone seen the light backs hit ebay yet?? sets? singles?

Kevin

Basilone · February 26, 2005 1:56PM

Here is a complete list of light backs:

10 John Smoltz
12 Darin Erstad
13 Chad Tracy
14 Charles Thomas
18 Derrek Lee
19 Juan Uribe
21 Kenny Lofton
22 Brad Ausmus
23 Jon Garland
24 Edwin Jackson
25 Joe Mauer
26 Wes Helms
27 Brian Schneider
29 Flash Gordon
34 Nick Green
36 Kevin Youkilis
37 Billy Wagner
38 Terrence Long
39 Kevin Mench
41 Reed Johnson
42 Reggie Sanders
43 Kirk Rueter
45 Tike Redman
47 Damian Miller
48 Zach Day
53 Juan Cruz
54 Byung-Hyun Kim
55 Carlos Zambrano
58 David Riske
59 Carlos Guillen
61 Barry Bonds
62 Chris Woodward
65 Scot Shields
66 J.D. Drew
67 Erik Bedard
68 Scott Williamson
74 Ricardo Rodriguez
75 Carlos Delgado
83 Odalis Perez
84 Scott Podsednik
86 Jeff Suppan
87 Ray Durham
91 Bengie Molina
92 Danny Bautista
93 Eli Marrero
94 Larry Bigbie
96 Merkin Valdez
97 Rocco Baldelli
98 Woody Williams
99 Jason Frasor
102 Joe Kennedy
104 Armando Benitez
106 David DeJesus
108 Phil Nevin
109 Cristian Guzman
114 Alex Cintron
117 Placido Polanco
120 Bobby Abreu
122 Dallas McPherson
123 Rodrigo Lopez
124 Mark Bellhorn
127 Ronnie Belliard
128 Tom Goodwin
131 Roberto Alomar
132 John Buck
133 Jason LaRue
136 Nate Robertson
138 Morgan Ensberg
139 Vinny Castilla
141 Chan Ho Park
143 Jason Isringhausen
144 Dustan Mohr
145 Khalil Greene
147 Vicente Padilla
148 Oliver Perez
149 Brian Giles
150 Shawn Green
152 Casey Blake
154 Orlando Hernandez
156 Chase Utley
158 Adam Eaton
160 Michael Tucker
161 Kevin Brown
162 Bobby Crosby
165 Tony Womack
168 Ted Lilly
170 Matt Morris
173 Jeff Weaver
174 Tony Graffanino
176 Carl Pavano
177 Junior Spivey
178 Carlos Silva
180 Brett Myers
181 Mike Mussina
183 Nick Johnson
189 Guillermo Quiroz
190 Mark Hendrickson
191 Jeremy Bonderman
192 Jason Jennings
194 A.J. Burnett
195 Ken Harvey
197 Joe Mays
200 Randy Johnson
201 Jeff DaVanon
202 Paul Byrd
204 Kyle Farnsworth
205 Keith Foulke
206 Joe Crede
207 Austin Kearns
209 Shawn Chacon
211 Luis Castillo
215 Brad Fullmer
218 Ryan Klesko
219 Octavio Dotel
220 Rob Mackowiak
221 Scott Hatteberg
223 Bernie Williams
224 Kris Benson
231 Troy Glaus
232 Chone Figgins
233 John Thomson
234 Trot Nixon
237 Miguel Batista
238 Ryan Drese
239 Aaron Miles
240 Randy Wolf
241 Brian Lawrence
242 A.J. Pierzynski
243 Jamie Moyer
244 Chris Carpenter
246 Rob Bell
247 Francisco Cordero
249 Jermaine Dye
250 Cliff Lee
252 Vernon Wells
253 R.A. Dickey
255 Randy Winn
256 Pedro Feliz
257 Mark Loretta
258 Tim Worrell
263 Luis Gonzalez
265 Paul Wilson
266 Mark Buehrle
267 Todd Hollandsworth
272 Brendan Donnelly
274 Brandon Webb
275 Marty Cordova
278 Aaron Harang
279 Coco Crisp
280 Bobby Higginson
282 Andy Pettitte
284 Craig Brazell
285 Eric Hinske
289 Matt Herges
290 Ramon Hernandez
291 Marlon Byrd
294 Al Leiter
296 Johan Santana
297 Milton Bradley
302 Tim Wakefield
304 Rafael Furcal
305 David Eckstein
306 David Segui
308 Matt Clement
310 Brad Radke
313 Joe Randa
316 Alex Sanchez
317 Chin-hui Tsao
318 Omar Vizquel
319 Ryan Freel
320 LaTroy Hawkins
321 Aaron Rowand
323 Joe Borowski
324 Jarrod Washburn
326 Johnny Damon
328 Travis Hafner
330 Dmitri Young
331 Matt Holliday
333 Desi Relaford
334 Jose Hernandez
336 Jacque Jones
337 Terrmel Sledge
340 Brad Wilkerson
342 Jesse Crain
343 Orlando Hudson
344 Laynce Nix
345 Jose Cruz Jr.
346 Edgar Renteria
347 Eddie Guardado
348 Jerome Williams
349 Trevor Hoffman
351 Jason Kendall
353 Tim Hudson
354 Paul Quantrill
355 Jon Lieber
356 Braden Looper
357 Chad Cordero
358 Joe Nathan
359 Doug Davis
361 Val Majewski
362 Francisco Rodriguez
363 Kelvim Escobar
366 David Bell
367 Shea Hillenbrand
369 Ben Broussard
371 Dustin Hermanson
377 Jake Peavy
379 Sean Burroughs
380 Rich Harden
382 John Lackey
383 Johnny Estrada
385 Toby Hall
386 Adam LaRoche
387 Bill Hall
388 Tim Salmon
390 Michael Barrett
391 Jose Acevedo
393 J.T. Snow Jr.
394 Mark Redman
397 Ramon Ortiz

easttexascardsandgames · February 26, 2005 1:59PM

Only listing I have found..

link

Stone193 · February 26, 2005 2:00PM

<< the sad thing is, we know more here about the light backs than topps and beckett combined!

Anyone seen the light backs hit ebay yet?? sets? singles?

Kevin >>

Funny you should ask that Kevin
I told someone that I would consider just purchasing them if the price were right - this guy is way off base IMO! When someone comes up with a complete set - then we'll be able to gauge the market.

your friend
Mike

Basilone · February 26, 2005 2:03PM

So far i have 193 out of 220.

joestalin · February 26, 2005 2:17PM

Im still in the 160's and Ive bought far less than John has, I also have doubles. I think you just have to get lucky. Some boxes
are yielding as much as 60% light backs and others none. One has to be excited about the prospect of getting so much of
what you need on your list from just one box....if you hit the right one.

As Im sure other will agree, it is hard to open packs when you are just a few cards short. Im going to be including my needs list soon in
my sig.

Kevin

joestalin · February 26, 2005 2:18PM

stone..the seller on that lot is a member here..pharber.

hmmm

Kevin

Basilone · February 26, 2005 2:28PM

<< m still in the 160's and Ive bought far less than John has, I also have doubles. >>

I have hundreds of doubles...my first 3 boxes netted me a total of 6 light backs. In additon, 4 other boxes had none at all.

All the matters is getting the right combination of "light back runs". It can be done in 4 - 8 boxes with perfect coalation.

Stone193 · February 26, 2005 2:31PM

<< stone..the seller on that lot is a member here..pharber.

hmmm

Kevin >>

Kevin
I remember him - cool guy - posted a whole bunch of great info on the parallel between the 56T set and the selection of current players with the same card number? Am I correct? But, no meaning any disrespect or anything - opening at 50 bucks is high. They are plentiful in the retail and not a premium that I can see.

And no where does Topps talk about this phenomena with respect to odds or anything or did I miss something?

your friend
Mike

joestalin · February 26, 2005 2:37PM

50 bucks is high ,but he is trying to work ebay....if he can get a bite more power to him. Hey...you can only hope that everyone
knows what is going on right? We all keep each other up to speed so none of us get caught paying too much. We can't
educate al of ebay right? LOL

Early on the beckett boards when this light back thing first hit someone called topps and they were told by topps CS
that there are light backs of ALL the cards, sp's included. Thats obviously not true. They don't even know.

Kevin

Stone193 · February 26, 2005 2:43PM

<< Early on the beckett boards when this light back thing first hit someone called topps and they were told by topps CS >>

Kevin
Agree on Pharber - if he can get a bite more power to him.

On the white/gray issue - I believe there is power in sharing knowledge and at this point no rush to judgement or action - I would wait to see how it shakes out while we collect/collate/trade to get our Master Sets* completed.

What do ya think?

your friend
Mike

joestalin · February 26, 2005 2:45PM

I haven't even begun to get this stuff in order, I know I have doubles but I don't know which ones yet..is it too
early to put these in the binder yet? Id hate to see some unknown sp show up and I have to move everything. LOL

So we are sure that Bonds isn't a short print?

Kevin

Axtell · February 26, 2005 2:46PM

I bought a box + 10 packs, and got 50 different light backs.

Seems to be completely random...no rhyme or reason to it.

Basilone · February 26, 2005 2:49PM

Bonds is NOT a Short Print.

Bonds DOES have a light back variation.

Basilone · February 26, 2005 2:50PM

I'm 99.999 percent confident it stands at 220 cards.

Gemmy10 · February 26, 2005 2:58PM

OK, here is a question. If the actual 1956 also had white backs, why aren't they listed in the 1956 Topps Master PSA Set Registry?

highend · February 26, 2005 4:19PM

gemmy- that's a good question, i believe the SMR states that the white backs sell for a premium.

as far as 2005 goes i think completing the run of white backs will be deceptively tough. some boxes have none at all. another thing i noticed is that in my first case i probably got 200 half dupes, in my second case i got over 300 with about 65 % dupes and VERY few of the white backs from my first case were included in my second case.

obviously , the collation sucks and it's possible that it may all be a ploy by topps to generate more sales. having said that, i agree it would be a tough sell for most to bust boxes looking/hoping for white backs

Gemmy10 · February 26, 2005 4:27PM

Can someone please post a close up of the differences? I may be color blind but my family and I opened 16 packs and we don't see one.

Axtell · February 26, 2005 4:44PM

If you see them side by side it's obvious.

It's quite possible you didn't get any...there are huge runs with none, and some with lots.

Pharber · February 26, 2005 9:58PM

Hi guys,
Sorry I was working yesterday and haven't been able to get on the board. Read posts. You saw I put white backs on EBay. Hey, I'm just throwing some gasoline on the fire. I really don't care if I sell them or not. In fact, if I wanted to sell them, I would have priced them at 99 cents and let it run up. I was debating with myself if I should have had an initial price of $99, just to make it interesting. I don't expect them to sell. For the few cents it costs to put something on eBay, it was worth the chuckle. Really.

Twinsthreepeat · February 26, 2005 10:18PM

In 1956 Topps cards 1-180 had either white backs or gray backs.

Cards 1-100 gray backs have a 10% premium.

Cards 101-180 white backs have a 30% premium.

PSA does not label white back, gray back that is why they not on 1956 topps master registry

softparade · February 26, 2005 11:24PM

TNP777 · February 26, 2005 11:31PM

<< mike, i guess it's more of a personal preference type of thing. i can't see a set complete with all the pose/uniform variations, NAP's, THN's not being considered a master set. Even though with the 2001 set the master set includes both black and red blacks from 1-80.
i have yet to decide if i'm going to put my light backs in my book or just box them.
i'm curious to see what others think about this.
if you decide to do all the light backs LMK, i have a lot of dupes....jim >>

Jim, I'd be interested in your white back dupes. Email me please.

Geordie

joestalin · February 27, 2005 1:10AM

Pharber...good luck on the auction, I think it is really funny that there hasn't been any news on these light backs yet. Its almost like becket
knows the info has come from a competitors message board so they are ignoring it. topps is just interested in the next product to make
them some money.

I get the impression that heritage this year is not overproduced and in some ways is a bit scarce this year. I haven't seen a whole lot on
dealer shelves and the difference between retail this year and last year is like night and day. This time last year I was seeing 8
box lots of the 29.99 boxes at every wal mart and now they have cut those boxes down to 8 packs and I haven't seen any here. The
only places I have seen them has gotten just one box in. That couldn't change but it has made these sets a bit harder to put together.

For those of you finding it hard to see the difference between the backs, I suggest you stack all your cards up, put them in a 500
or 800 count box and tilt them all the same way. You will be able to pick out the light backs very easily!

Now that we have concluded that this set is 220 cards larger....how the heck am I going to get this in a binder??? This is the biggest
set to date. Anyone gone that far?

Kevin

softparade · February 27, 2005 1:15AM

I have the base set in a binder with still a box to break. Missing about 100 cards for the base set.Have not even looked at the SP's yet. The next week will determine whether I need to purchase more or if trading will set me up.

I have a big stack of light backs which I am not sure what I am going to do with yet.

Stone193 · February 27, 2005 1:33AM

<< I have the base set in a binder with still a box to break. Missing about 100 cards for the base set.Have not even looked at the SP's yet. The next week will determine whether I need to purchase more or if trading will set me up.

I have a big stack of light backs which I am not sure what I am going to do with yet. >>

Dan
If you don't go light, I know someone who is dumb enough to be compelled to complete that parallel universe!

Axtell · February 27, 2005 2:20AM

I too am interested in completing the set with both dark and light back variants.

Gemmy10 · February 27, 2005 3:53AM

Geez, since I can not tell the difference maybe all of my Booster Box cards are Light Backs.

Basilone · February 27, 2005 5:06AM

In regards to the binders....I'm using 2 Ultra Pro Binders this time.

The first binder includes #1-#377 (with variations)

The second binder includes #378-#475, Flashbacks Set, New Age Set, Then & Now Set, and 220 Light Backs.

Both Binders fill up nicely.

In addition I have 97 different white backs I may put up on eBay as one lot.

Still need 3 for my set though (217 out of 220)...NEED 14, 122, 247

then have have about 55 triples, etc. too.

Axtell · February 27, 2005 5:53AM

<< Geez, since I can not tell the difference maybe all of my Booster Box cards are Light Backs. >>

If you have any cards *not* on the light back list mentioned above, you don't have all light backs. It's likely you just got a batch with no lights in them...it has happened.

IJustLoveCards · February 27, 2005 7:33AM

well thank you all for an interesting afternoon, I was going to relax enjoy some sports, but...nooooooooo...

I had to go thru all my heritage and find those dam light backs...

the results are in..

207 light backs....all of which matched the list to perfection...

and of course 3 million 400 thousand doubles....

helionaut · February 27, 2005 8:30AM

In my mind this is one of those printing variations that is of such obscure interest that it won't warrant a separate listing or inclusion in a "master set." Remember 1991 Topps had the 40th Anniversary logo on the back behind the stats. Most cards had the logo printed in a very faded, soft red, almost like a watermark. But on some it was much bolder and brighter. I remember seeing ads in SCD or someplace where people were buying the bright red ones specifically. But that was only for real sticklers.

Axtell · February 27, 2005 9:14AM

Just opened 2 retail boxes...and ZERO light backs.

The packs I opened from target yesterday (34 packs) yielded 50 light backs.

Very, very strange.

softparade · February 27, 2005 9:59AM

Axtell, I got 3 hobby boxes from kuhlman. Two of them had zero light backs. The other just 13 , strange it is. One retail box I got from a Wal Mart had 70% lights to greys.

TheNatural · February 27, 2005 10:39AM

I have opened three hobby boxes from the same case. Each box had exactly 49 light backs, 7 packs with 6 light backs and 1 pack with 7 light backs. In the third box, all 49 cards were duplicates of the light backs from the first two boxes. All 98 different light backs that I have are on the list of 220.

WARNING: THIS THREAD IS ABOUT HERITAGE LIGHT BACKS

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