Toned 1882-O Morgan I picked up today - is it real or AT?

Russ · May 17, 2003 8:03AM

Bought this at a flea market:

Jumbo images here:

Click for jumbo obverse image.

Click for jumbo reverse image.

I think the toning is the real deal, and she grades about MS64. Of course, I could be dead wrong and got screwed. What's the group's opinion?

Russ, NCNE

FC57Coins · May 17, 2003 8:06AM

Russ Russ Russ Russ Russ - where did your mother and I go wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's real

relayer · May 17, 2003 8:07AM

That not only looks real, it looks real nice

byergo · May 17, 2003 8:19AM

Wow! Drop dead awesome!

TONEDDOLLARS · May 17, 2003 8:28AM

Nice coin, I'm envious. Want to sell???????

coingame2000 · May 17, 2003 8:32AM

Russ,

The toning IS real and the coin itself appears to be very nice -- good job!!!!

Mike

littlewicher · May 17, 2003 8:35AM

It looks real to me.

MS68 · May 17, 2003 8:36AM

Russ- Awesome coin dude. It looks like a gem to me. Nice pickup.

ElectricEye · May 17, 2003 8:38AM

bands look like NT

bastage!

nice find

Johnscoin · May 17, 2003 8:47AM

A beautiful coin no doubt. I'm weary of the pink color though...that's different..

coinkat · May 17, 2003 9:07AM

It is attractive and looks to be real... good eye and great purchase.

Russ · May 17, 2003 9:14AM

My mind is easing.

Because I'm so new at this, I get a bit worried when I buy something like this. I thought all the correct signs were there on this one, but than I've thought that before and blown it.

Thanks for all the input!

Russ, NCNE

Tonekiller · May 17, 2003 9:14AM

Real coin and color.....nice find Russ.

TBT

MadMarty · May 17, 2003 9:25AM

I have to admit Russ, that is one purdy coin!

Bear · May 17, 2003 9:28AM

When Mike DeFalco and Bryan Osborn

say a coin is the real thing, then its the real thing.

Its a beautiful coin. You done real good.!!!!!!!

nwcs · May 17, 2003 10:34AM

Very nice coin. Toning looks all there to me. Got it at a bargain, I bet!

jbsteven · May 17, 2003 10:36AM

<< When Mike DeFalco and Bryan Osborn >>

<< say a coin is the real thing, then its the real thing. >>

PLEASE DO NOT FEED Bryan Orsborn's ego, it is big enough!

Russ · May 17, 2003 10:52AM

<< Got it at a bargain, I bet! >>

Well, it did cost me more than a white one would have.

Russ, NCNE

barberlover · May 17, 2003 10:52AM

Has anyone developed a way to "one side only AT a coin?" I don't think so. Les

Russ, i think you are the working mans collector on this forum, you have a great eye for beautiful coins and no one but Anaconda rivals you for coin pictures.

I am very curiuos how that shade of pink shows up in rainbow toned morgans? Les

Russ · May 17, 2003 10:59AM

Les,

That's very flattering but the fact is what little I do know, I learned from the people here. Without this forum, I'd be buying junk and getting screwed left and right.

Russ, NCNE

eagle7 · May 17, 2003 11:01AM

All toning is real, some coins just got toned a lot quicker than others and some look a whole lot better than others. Your coin is certainly beautiful and therefore market acceptable. How it got that way is pretty much irrelevant as long as one of the major companies will slab it and I bet they will barring any other problems which we cannot see in the pics. Nice find Russ! Looks Greattt!

BTW I think it took a long time to get that way!

Russ · January 9, 2005 4:11AM

TTT.

Russ, NCNE

lordmarcovan · January 9, 2005 4:36AM

NT. Real.

SilverDollarMan · January 9, 2005 4:43AM

N!ce Russ

Stuart · January 9, 2005 4:55AM

Russ: That's a very attractive Morgan that appears naturally toned to my eye, but others on the forum are much more aware of NT vs AT than me.

I do, however, feel qualified to say that it's a gorgeous 1882-O with tremendous eye appeal. You have a great eye for beautiful Morgans, but I'd prefer if you'd stick with Kennedy's so that there would be less competition out there for premium quality coins

Nice purchase!!

Newmismatist · January 9, 2005 4:57AM

Russ

Hmmmm - Looks very similiar to a coin that you found in a flea market a couple of years ago - Did you find another?

pharmer · January 9, 2005 5:03AM

I like these blasts from the past when they relate to current conversations, adds even more, and provides different context.

K6AZ · January 9, 2005 5:16AM

For those that don't know the history of this coin...

Was submitted to PCGS and graded as a 65, sold for a tidy sum.

Subsequently found it's way into a NGC MS66* holder, did not sell for the astronomical sum asked for by the seller.

Coin resubmitted to PCGS, who this time graded it as a MS64.

After that, the coin dropped out of site, unless Russ or someone else knows what happened to it after that.

Baley · January 9, 2005 5:26AM

bet the coin wishes it was still in that NGC MS66* holder!
or the PCGS 65, for that matter

Russ · January 9, 2005 5:46AM

<< bet the coin wishes it was still in that NGC MS66* holder! >>

Hell, if I'd have known it would grade MS66* at NGC I'd have sent it there myself and grabbed an even more obscene profit!

Russ, NCNE

pharmer · January 9, 2005 1:02PM

<< For those that don't know the history of this coin...

Was submitted to PCGS and graded as a 65, sold for a tidy sum.

Subsequently found it's way into a NGC MS66* holder, did not sell for the astronomical sum asked for by the seller.

Coin resubmitted to PCGS, who this time graded it as a MS64.

After that, the coin dropped out of site, unless Russ or someone else knows what happened to it after that. >>

Now, this is too wierd. Are you guys serious that you don't know where it is? My eyes aren't the best, don't have glasses but I need them, but I think it has been right in front of you. Can you guess, or do you already know, and it's not the coin but just its image?

K6AZ · January 9, 2005 1:06PM

Someone is using the image of the coin as an avatar here, but as far as I know the coin quietly dropped out of sight after a very long thread regarding it's value in the PCGS 64 holder. Where it is now I haven't a clue.

pharmer · January 9, 2005 1:11PM

Thanks, Eric, the Twilight Zone music was going to keep me awake.

BAJJERFAN · January 9, 2005 1:33PM

<< Has anyone developed a way to "one side only AT a coin?" I don't think so. Les >>

As long as you don't use heat to AT a coin you can coat one side with wax and later remove it with a solvent such as hexane aka ligroine or petroleum ether or Skelly-solv. And no one will be the wiser.

Coin Finder · January 9, 2005 1:38PM

av·a·tar ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-tär)
n.
The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form.
An embodiment, as of a quality or concept; an archetype: the very avatar of cunning.
A temporary manifestation or aspect of a continuing entity: occultism in its present avatar.

uofa1285 · January 9, 2005 1:43PM

nt

tradedollarnut · January 9, 2005 1:46PM

Wasn't there a trip to NCS involved in that history? Or am I thinking of another coin...

BAJJERFAN · January 9, 2005 2:11PM

I think you are right TDN.

Sunnywood · January 9, 2005 2:49PM

Yes, the coin had a layer of clear film on it that was removed by NCS, according to the talk back then. It then went PCGS MS65, and was bought by (?) islemangu (the fellow in Guam), who subsequently re-sold it on Ebay. I missed the final bidding because I was stuck in Manhattan traffic. The coin went to TBT. There was this rumor about his getting it into an NGC MS66* holder, but I don't know if anyone actually saw it in that holder. Then somehow the coin was cracked (I guess by TBT) and came back PCGS MS64. Ouch. I wanted it as a PCGS MS65, but never had the opportunity. Fortunately, our good friend Mike DeFalco came up with another really cool 1882-O PCGS MS65 for me instead !!

Best,
Sunnywood

Russ · January 10, 2005 2:45AM

<< Yes, the coin had a layer of clear film on it that was removed by NCS, according to the talk back then. It then went PCGS MS65 >>

You have the order of events wrong. It never went to NCS before it graded MS65 at PCGS. I submitted it as it was with no conservation.

<< There was this rumor about his getting it into an NGC MS66* holder, but I don't know if anyone actually saw it in that holder. >>

Not a rumor; TBT stated that he sent it to NCS and on to NGC where it graded MS66*. He also stated that he cracked it out of that holder and sent it back to PCGS where it regraded MS64.

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ · January 10, 2005 3:27AM

Russ, I would assume you don't have any idea what happened to it after that either.

I think this coin has as much notoriety as the Barney Dollar. If it resurfaces, someone ought to get PCGS to give it the pedigree of "The Flea Market Dollar".

Sunnywood · January 10, 2005 4:12AM

Russ,

I never understood why TBT sent it to NCS. Obviously, it was not for the usual reason of removing unsightly toning!!!!!!!!! TBT said there was some "film" on the obverse that needed to be removed. If this was true, how did it get into the PCGS MS65 holder? I wouldn't have thought PCGS would slab it that way. Did you think there was a film on it when you had it raw??

Once TBT had it in the NGC MS66* holder, it's a wonder he cracked it out. But part of that was MY fault. I had told him I would buy the coin, but only in a PCGS holder, and only at MS65 or better. I'm sure he was hoping for a PCGS MS66, which would have made him a profit of thousands of dollars on the spot by selling the coin to me. I had been lobbying him to sell me the coin !!!! On the other hand, had he consigned the coin to auction as an NGC MS66*, he probably would also have made a substantial sum on it.

After it was downgraded at PCGS, I never heard anything further about it. But if NGC put it into a 66* holder, I think it not unlikely that the coin would easily find its way back into a 65 holder at either service.

Best,
Sunnywood

Russ · January 10, 2005 4:17AM

<< Did you think there was a film on it when you had it raw?? >>

It had what I considered to be a natural skin. BUT, I should note that at the time I knew even less than I do now. Thus, it's possible that a Morgan expert may have considered it a detriment and I didn't simply due to ignorance.

Russ, NCNE

morgannut2 · January 10, 2005 4:35AM

So basically the only guy who didn't make a ton of money was the flea market guy. Do you remember what he sold it for

and if he was driving by chance a 1959 Chevy (maybe my stories are confused)??

K6AZ · January 10, 2005 4:48AM

<< 

<< Did you think there was a film on it when you had it raw?? >>

It had what I considered to be a natural skin. BUT, I should note that at the time I knew even less than I do now. Thus, it's possible that a Morgan expert may have considered it a detriment and I didn't simply due to ignorance.

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, knowing what you do now, would you have sent it to NCS?

morgannut2 · January 10, 2005 4:53AM

Don't Russ and/or Mad Marty suggest stabilizing potential acids with a soak in 99% alcohol before submitting?

Russ · January 10, 2005 5:43AM

<< Russ, knowing what you do now, would you have sent it to NCS? >>

And get it in to an NGC MS66* holder and make a whole bunch more money? Hell yeah!

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ · January 10, 2005 5:52AM

But remember, it didn't sell in the NGC66* holder. It was my opinion then, as it is now, that the coin should not have been messed with in any way. Sure it got a 66* with the NCS/NGC combo deal, as many others have. I still am of the opinion that PCGS detected whatever NCS did to it, and bumped it down a point. And this isn't an isolated case, there are thousands of original coins that have been "conserved" in order to make a fast buck. It's a shame.

morgannut2 · January 10, 2005 5:58AM

I'm lost. How can one do anything except perhaps an alcohol soak and NOT DAMAGE the delicate toning? I don't understand what NCS could ever do without obvious harm, or am I naive?

islemangu · January 10, 2005 6:00AM

"film" on the obverse that needed to be removed.

This perplexed me then and still now and why I would so much like to see the coin again now for comparison. How does one remove a film on a toned coin without altering the nt? Up to hearing this I thought NCS submitted coins all came back blast white. When raised questions about this when was all happening no one wanted to talk about it.

Toned 1882-O Morgan I picked up today - is it real or AT?

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