It's when a Proof is circulated, that it really becomes tough to tell, especially since sharpness of strike is a major indicator... if a proof has been circulated, it often can be hard to tell between wear, and strike weakness... personally, I say... stay away from high dollar proofs like this, unless it's in a major TPG holder...
In this "How can you tell a proof?" thread I state I think the 1896 Morgan linked above is not a proof. Even if it is a circualted proof it still isn't very desirable to me.
If it's really a proof, why isn't the dealer making sure it's put into a slab to increase the value and potential bidders? BTW, I'm wondering if tsacch thinks it's a proof......
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
Quite difficult to tell from the image - It appears to have Proof characteristics, but it would be much easier to tell in hand and with Breen's book next to you to check the die characteristics. However, the Seller seems to have a few things going for him:
1. 4400 positive feedbacks from different ebay users (total of 6695 positives, 5 total negs a 99.9% positive rating).
2. A real coin (and Stamp) dealer in business for 46 years with listed phone number (and my guess, a store)
3. The following guaranty:
"guaranteed a proof, please feel free to certify it, in About Uncirculated condition. I guarantee the authenticity of all our coins and please feel comfortable bidding. I know its hard to see only a scan, so you may return any coin you do not like for any reason. Anthony's has been selling coins wholesale since 1958."
This dealer has probably seen a few Morgan proofs and should be able to distinguish between a business strike and a proof strike. That said, before I'd feel comfortable calling it a proof, I'd like to see it in person. There's a difference here and with the prior thread regarding the 1895 "Proof" because that 1895 did NOT match the die characteristics of genuine 1895 Proofs, so it's quite easy to make the call that it was NOT a proof and either an altered date or an outright counterfit - as a genuine 1895 is worth $20-$25K even litely circulated, there's a heck of a lot of incentive to alter/counterfit an 1895 Morgan Dollar.
In this case, without die matching it's a bit more difficult to make definative decision that this coin is a proof, but as a PR 60 it's only worth $600, and a Pr55 maybe $200-$300, there seems significantly less incentive to counterfit or alter this coin, and logically a dealer with an excellent reputation is not likely to try and swindle someone for a couple of hundred dollars. I'd bet about a hundred dollars that this one is a proof, particularly with the stated return policy (though I'd confirm the guarantee by emails to make sure and ship it of to ANACS to verify that it was in fact a proof). All in all, not too much risk if you don't over-bid trying to prove a point.
OTH, I think it's fugly and would spend my money some where else.
Collecting eye-appealing Proof and MS Indian Head Cents, 1858 Flying Eagle and IHC patterns and beautiful toned coins.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain Newmismatist
<I'd bet about a hundred dollars that this one is a proof>
Well, I would only bet $5 it is a business strike. Either you are more sure than I or you are willing to risk more. I don't like the softness of the strike or the rims, not to mention the nicks and dings, but I guess money talks.
I'd agree with Mr. Eureka on this one. The reverse rims particularly beveled. Reeding doesn't appear to be that sharp. I'd expect better even on a circulated proof. But....traces of a wire rim on the obv and some other striking sharpness might indicate a proof. I've never quite understood the value of circ Morgan proofs. Even if they are one of 700 minted, except for the 1895 date, there are thousands of business strikes available. To each his own.
While I'm familiar enough with Anthony's ads I have no clue who their experts are or how good they are.
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njcc
Russ, NCNE
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BTW, I'm wondering if tsacch thinks it's a proof......
1. 4400 positive feedbacks from different ebay users (total of 6695 positives, 5 total negs a 99.9% positive rating).
2. A real coin (and Stamp) dealer in business for 46 years with listed phone number (and my guess, a store)
3. The following guaranty:
"guaranteed a proof, please feel free to certify it, in About Uncirculated condition. I guarantee the authenticity of all our coins and please feel comfortable bidding. I know its hard to see only a scan, so you may return any coin you do not like for any reason. Anthony's has been selling coins wholesale since 1958."
This dealer has probably seen a few Morgan proofs and should be able to distinguish between a business strike and a proof strike. That said, before I'd feel comfortable calling it a proof, I'd like to see it in person. There's a difference here and with the prior thread regarding the 1895 "Proof" because that 1895 did NOT match the die characteristics of genuine 1895 Proofs, so it's quite easy to make the call that it was NOT a proof and either an altered date or an outright counterfit - as a genuine 1895 is worth $20-$25K even litely circulated, there's a heck of a lot of incentive to alter/counterfit an 1895 Morgan Dollar.
In this case, without die matching it's a bit more difficult to make definative decision that this coin is a proof, but as a PR 60 it's only worth $600, and a Pr55 maybe $200-$300, there seems significantly less incentive to counterfit or alter this coin, and logically a dealer with an excellent reputation is not likely to try and swindle someone for a couple of hundred dollars. I'd bet about a hundred dollars that this one is a proof, particularly with the stated return policy (though I'd confirm the guarantee by emails to make sure and ship it of to ANACS to verify that it was in fact a proof). All in all, not too much risk if you don't over-bid trying to prove a point.
OTH, I think it's fugly and would spend my money some where else.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
Well, I would only bet $5 it is a business strike. Either you are more sure than I or you are willing to risk more. I don't like the softness of the strike or the rims, not to mention the nicks and dings, but I guess money talks.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It's nice we agree on this one.
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I've never quite understood the value of circ Morgan proofs. Even if they are one of 700 minted, except for the 1895 date, there are thousands of business strikes available. To each his own.
While I'm familiar enough with Anthony's ads I have no clue who their experts are or how good they are.
roadrunner
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
<< <i>Why would anyone buy a circulated proof unless it was a great rarity/no business strikes???????????
Well, for someone collecting proof morgans and can't/won't spend >$1000 on each?