I looked at that coin today at the show. It is, IMHO, one the 3 finest looking coins in the auction. The color is outstanding and the luster is vibrant.
I looked at that coin today at the show. It is, IMHO, one the 3 finest looking coins in the auction. The color is outstanding and the luster is vibrant.
It must be one of those "have to be there" kind of coins, because it doesn't look $19,000 impressive in the scans......
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
I think everyone except RYK needs to read about Heritage's reserves. Click on 'Bidders' and you'll get this pop-up:
Bidders This number represents the number of individual bidders, including consignor reserves, on each lot. An individual who bids more than once is still counted only once. Consignor reserves are counted twice by design to save bidders time and guesswork, since our software always calculates the Current Bid as one bidding increment over the second highest bid. Thus, the two reserve bids placed for the consignor are formulated so that any subsequent bid will always meet or exceed the reserve.
Note: Consignor reserves may be posted as late as 48 hours prior to close, but bidding your maximum early does not put you at a disadvantage because no consignor or other bidder can see your Maximum Bid.
In other words, 8 actual bidders may have bid the thing up to only $72.50, but the current bid shows $18,500 and the next bid meets reserve.
That is a beautiful coin. First year issue, one of only 5 graded by pcgs and ngc, and beautiful color to boot. I have not seen the other 4, but would have a hard time imagining any of them look nicer than this piece. It's a lot of dough, but it's a lot of coin!
I agree it is a stunning coin. One hell of a coin! But, 10 times average money??
Bustman & Lava,
First of all, let me clear things up by admitting to being the "greedy dealer" that consigned this coin to the sale. You guys obviously don't know what pop top Franklins have been selling for. That in itself is no crime. What I do not appreciate is that you came on the thread and acted like you know what you are talking about and may have just cost me a sale had someone been on the fence and seen this garbage talk.
Average money for what? Average money for a pop two PCGS Franklin? Please offer me your pop two "average" PCGS Franklins for $10,000 each let alone $2000. I sold lot 7199, a 1958-D PCGS 67FBL, in this sale for just under $3000 with the juice. It is an "average coin" of the most common date. If this beautiful 1948 had been the common date 1958-D, it would have sold for at least $7000. I would have to check my auction records to be precise, but as far as I remember, the first PCGS MS67FBL 1948 Franklin sold in the $25,000 to $30,000 range in a Bowers auction a few years ago. That coin did not hold a candle to this coin. I think that my reserve was fair considering the quality of this coin. The timing of this sale right after the election and the fact that this was a brand new show that did not attract many collectors may have had more to do with the coin not selling. Next time please do a little homework before coming out with your sensationalistic nonsense.
MS68 I would have to check my auction records to be precise, but as far as I remember, the first PCGS MS67FBL 1948 Franklin sold in the $25,000 to $30,000 range in a Bowers auction a few years ago.
That's my recollection as well. I think it was about $27,000-$28,500 or so with the juice. I think that B&M auction was within the last 14 months.
I agree that some people would be amazed at what some of the top notch Franklins with eye appeal are selling for.
MS68, You might need to take a chill pill. I never said you were a greedy dealer, all I did was point out that the coin was selling for major money. I said the coin was gorgeous, but I am still amazed at what it is up to. I have PLENTY of experience in stepping up to the plate and paying moon money for exceptional coins. But I don't believe I have ever paid more than 5 times money. I think you are the one who is a little off base for accusing someone of trying to sabotage your sale, or talking garbage, when I am simply just expressing my opinion. I have not been negative or accusatory.
It's a beautiful coin and the most any individual collector can say is that it is or is not worth XXX number of dollars to me.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
JMHO, but I think you set the reserve too low David! I just wish I had the money to buy it from you right now, but I do not. This coin is underpriced at 20,000 in my humble opinion.
In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
I think it's really a fabulous looking coin...and I'd loooooooooooooooooove to own it.
Does anyone think there's just a wee little bit too much chatter on the prime areas for a 67, though? Much more on the obverse than the reverse. This is a 20K MS67K coin, mind you...
Do you think that it got any PQ color bump?
Yes, I know these are giant pics. Maybe I'm just being a little picky.
After looking carefully at the pics, I'm starting to think that maybe I am just being picky. But I still wanted to throw the question out there for your opinions...
What I do not appreciate is that you came on the thread and acted like you know what you are talking about and may have just cost me a sale had someone been on the fence and seen this garbage talk.
With all due respect, you have got to be kidding. You must be. No, I am not laughing that you value your Frankie at the price of a (slightly used) BMW--that does not bother me one bit (greater fool theory and all that). But blasting forum members for being discerning about price and value? We sit around all day and all night and discuss the value of coins.
I know just the buyer for you. I would contact R&I coins--they are known to be strong buyers of this type of material. Maybe if you call the owner, he will return your call.
Forgive my ignorance, but this coin did not sell at auction right........................It is now offered for BIN @$21,850 I agree with XpipedreamR............too much chatter for an MS67, but I will say very nice color.
I would much rather put $21k, in a Choice AU Small Eagle Dollar
Apparently collectors are never to discuss among themselves what such and such a coin is worth. They should just let dealers set the price and shut up.
Xpipe nailed it. The luster and strike would have to be ms69 to get to a ms67 grade with those scrapes and hits. Of course maybe the hits are not hits. I wonder what Rick Tomaksa thinks? I do have the disadvantage of not seeing coin in hand, but based on the scans alone I know where a better one is and I might go buy it!
Well, I guess it is my turn to reply. First of all, I don't know anything about Franklins. I am literally stupid when it comes to Franklins. The only thing more idiotic would be someone following my advice on Franklins. Is it a nice coin? I don't have a clue. I probably could tell the difference between a 65 and a 67. Even worse, if I walked past a dealer's case and saw that coin, I wouldn't think twice if it said $200 or $2,000. Now comes the but ................................... but $20,000? Why not $15,000, or $25,000?
Regardless of my shortcomings about Franklins, my point is this -- I don't think you can get $20,000 out of a Franklin. So it's a low population coin, there are a lot of low population coins. I own a bunch of low population coins. I can point to many that would sell for a fraction of that Franklin.
If you, and the coin's owner, were so confident that the market shared your view of this coin's value, why the moon money reserve? If this coin is worth $20,000, prove me the idiot -- put it back in auction at no reserve and show me it sells for $20,000. Let me know when and where, so I know to shut up and not deter all those people that follow my advice on Franklins.
Seriously, if my comments rubbed you the wrong way I apologize, but I simply find it beyond belief that this coin carries that kind of value, and the fact that you stick a reserve of $20,000 on the coin is not an indicator of value.
As far as grade the coin sure looks 67 to me. Even if its a 66.8, who cares. You do not find many Franklins looking like that. I just questioned the premium price. We discuss what amazing coins sell for every day of the week on this forum, which is why I think David Schweitz may be over reacting a bit here. I am sorry his coin did not sell for what he hoped for, but to say this thread, which was in no way created to be a negative thread, is responsible for the coin not selling is just absurd.
I don't see the coin as a 67 for if that was the case, I'd be sending half of my collection in for an upgrade review. My 48-D 66fbl has a lot less hits. So we ask, did the coin bump a point for eye appeal? Yea, I'd say so. Is that Eye appeal worth the cost, hell no. Just because the market will bear that price at this CURRENT time, with the CURRENT populations, which by nature a bound to increase, does not mean the coin is a good buy at that money. Hell yea I'd like to get that much money if I owned the coin. If I was purchasing the coin, I know that for a long term hold, it would be a very high risk. Can somebody show me some proof gold?
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
What is the coin worth? It's worth whatever an (educated ?) buyer is willing to pay for it. I won't pay more than $200 for it since there are 65's out there with nice color, luster and a couple of more hits that would suit me fine. That said there are collectors with very deep pockets for whom $20,000 amounts to a half-days work. The deep pocket buyer that would spent $20,000 for that coin has a sense of value a heck of a lot different then mine (for $20,000 I'd be buying a couple of very nice early Bust Half Eagles, right Baley ) but to each his own.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
<< <i>What I do not appreciate is that you came on the thread and acted like you know what you are talking about and may have just cost me a sale had someone been on the fence and seen this garbage talk.
With all due respect, you have got to be kidding. You must be. No, I am not laughing that you value your Frankie at the price of a (slightly used) BMW--that does not bother me one bit (greater fool theory and all that). But blasting forum members for being discerning about price and value? We sit around all day and all night and discuss the value of coins.
I know just the buyer for you. I would contact R&I coins--they are known to be strong buyers of this type of material. Maybe if you call the owner, he will return your call.
<< <i>What I do not appreciate is that you came on the thread and acted like you know what you are talking about and may have just cost me a sale had someone been on the fence and seen this garbage talk.
With all due respect, you have got to be kidding. You must be. No, I am not laughing that you value your Frankie at the price of a (slightly used) BMW--that does not bother me one bit (greater fool theory and all that). But blasting forum members for being discerning about price and value? We sit around all day and all night and discuss the value of coins.
I know just the buyer for you. I would contact R&I coins--they are known to be strong buyers of this type of material. Maybe if you call the owner, he will return your call.
Good luck. >>
; >>
This is exactly the sort of coin that all modern dealers would be looking to buy
I concur with the MS-67 grade, Im a little unsure of the full bell lines though. The color on the obverse is amazing, while the reverse is somewhat lacking. I would never pay that much for a high grade modern rarity.
Scott Hopkins -YN Currently Collecting & Researching Colonial World Coins, Especially Spanish Coins, With a Great Interest in WWII Militaria.
"I simply find it beyond belief that this coin carries that kind of value, and the fact that you stick a reserve of $20,000 on the coin is not an indicator of value."
Incomprehensible to me that this coin carries that kind of value. Does appear to be NT though.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
All of you that find it "incomprehensible" that this coin is valued as such need to do your homework before your jaw drops or open your mouth.
Lot 1661 at B & M's Baltimore ANA show July 30 through August 2nd was a FBL MS67 1948 Franklin. I saw it. It (I think) is the only Franklin I have ever looked at. Don't collect them, don't know much about them. But I was there briefly, and a collector friend of mine who was into Franklins, told me to look at that one, because he thought it was the best he'd ever seen. I thought it was beautiful, but with a lot of unattractive "dirt', (I just don't like that...).
The price realized was $28,750. Dave's coin blows it away, IMO.
<< <i>All of you that find it "incomprehensible" that this coin is valued as such need to do your homework before your jaw drops or open your mouth.
Lot 1661 at B & M's Baltimore ANA show July 30 through August 2nd was a FBL MS67 1948 Franklin. I saw it. It (I think) is the only Franklin I have ever looked at. Don't collect them, don't know much about them. But I was there briefly, and a collector friend of mine who was into Franklins, told me to look at that one, because he thought it was the best he'd ever seen. I thought it was beautiful, but with a lot of unattractive "dirt', (I just don't like that...).
The price realized was $28,750. Dave's coin blows it away, IMO. >>
You say we need to do our homework, and then say you don't know much about Franklins, now that sure lends a whole lot of credability to your statement. I do know Franklins very well, and its way overpriced. Anaconda uses the word "worth" We could debate that point. Based on eye appeal alone, to me, the coin is not worth it by a long shot. Wait until the Population goes up, and it will. I've looked at a slew of Franklins since I started collecting them in the late seventies. I've known a lot of collectors, hard core Frankie fanatics. Although that coin is not a run of the mill franklin, it is not 28K rare. Unless your stupid rich, that is a ridiculous price to pay for a Franklin. IMHO That kind of money is better spent on a more classic rarity.
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
Unless your stupid rich, that is a ridiculous price to pay for a Franklin.
Ah, but there are plenty of people in this world that are stupid rich - which by your statement would indicate that it's ok for them to buy it at that level. Nothing wrong with taking a couple of tries to accomodate one of those people....
<< <i>Unless your stupid rich, that is a ridiculous price to pay for a Franklin.
Ah, but there are plenty of people in this world that are stupid rich - which by your statement would indicate that it's ok for them to buy it at that level. Nothing wrong with taking a couple of tries to accomodate one of those people.... >>
Hey, anybody can do with their money as they please. If your stupid rich, 20K won't hurt you.
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
Comments
Next Bid Meets Reserve
It must be one of those "have to be there" kind of coins, because it doesn't look $19,000 impressive in the scans......
Russ, NCNE
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I have just four words for you:
Next Bid Meets Reserve >>
I think everyone except RYK needs to read about Heritage's reserves. Click on 'Bidders' and you'll get this pop-up:
Bidders
This number represents the number of individual bidders, including consignor reserves, on each lot. An individual who bids more than once is still counted only once. Consignor reserves are counted twice by design to save bidders time and guesswork, since our software always calculates the Current Bid as one bidding increment over the second highest bid. Thus, the two reserve bids placed for the consignor are formulated so that any subsequent bid will always meet or exceed the reserve.
Note: Consignor reserves may be posted as late as 48 hours prior to close, but bidding your maximum early does not put you at a disadvantage because no consignor or other bidder can see your Maximum Bid.
In other words, 8 actual bidders may have bid the thing up to only $72.50, but the current bid shows $18,500 and the next bid meets reserve.
BTW, It is not my coin, nor am I bidding on it.
It's pretty, but not $18k kind of pretty
That's a lot of money for a little color
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
but you can either take this coin
or a brand new fully loaded honda civic
michael
First year issue, one of only 5 graded by pcgs and ngc, and beautiful color to boot. I have not seen the other 4, but would have a hard time imagining any of them look nicer than this piece. It's a lot of dough, but it's a lot of coin!
<< <i>Im getting an invalid auction number. >>
Same here!
Bustman & Lava,
First of all, let me clear things up by admitting to being the "greedy dealer" that consigned this coin to the sale. You guys obviously don't know what pop top Franklins have been selling for. That in itself is no crime. What I do not appreciate is that you came on the thread and acted like you know what you are talking about and may have just cost me a sale had someone been on the fence and seen this garbage talk.
Average money for what? Average money for a pop two PCGS Franklin? Please offer me your pop two "average" PCGS Franklins for $10,000 each let alone $2000. I sold lot 7199, a 1958-D PCGS 67FBL, in this sale for just under $3000 with the juice. It is an "average coin" of the most common date. If this beautiful 1948 had been the common date 1958-D, it would have sold for at least $7000. I would have to check my auction records to be precise, but as far as I remember, the first PCGS MS67FBL 1948 Franklin sold in the $25,000 to $30,000 range in a Bowers auction a few years ago. That coin did not hold a candle to this coin. I think that my reserve was fair considering the quality of this coin. The timing of this sale right after the election and the fact that this was a brand new show that did not attract many collectors may have had more to do with the coin not selling. Next time please do a little homework before coming out with your sensationalistic nonsense.
I would have to check my auction records to be precise, but as far as I remember, the first PCGS MS67FBL 1948 Franklin sold in the $25,000 to $30,000 range in a Bowers auction a few years ago.
That's my recollection as well. I think it was about $27,000-$28,500 or so with the juice. I think that B&M auction was within the last 14 months.
I agree that some people would be amazed at what some of the top notch Franklins with eye appeal are selling for.
siliconvalleycoins.com
You might need to take a chill pill. I never said you were a greedy dealer, all I did was point out that the coin was selling for major money. I said the coin was gorgeous, but I am still amazed at what it is up to. I have PLENTY of experience in stepping up to the plate and paying moon money for exceptional coins. But I don't believe I have ever paid more than 5 times money. I think you are the one who is a little off base for accusing someone of trying to sabotage your sale, or talking garbage, when I am simply just expressing my opinion. I have not been negative or accusatory.
Does anyone think there's just a wee little bit too much chatter on the prime areas for a 67, though? Much more on the obverse than the reverse. This is a 20K MS67K coin, mind you...
Do you think that it got any PQ color bump?
Yes, I know these are giant pics. Maybe I'm just being a little picky.
After looking carefully at the pics, I'm starting to think that maybe I am just being picky. But I still wanted to throw the question out there for your opinions...
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
With all due respect, you have got to be kidding. You must be.
I know just the buyer for you. I would contact R&I coins--they are known to be strong buyers of this type of material. Maybe if you call the owner, he will return your call.
Good luck.
Where's Cleon when we need him.
I agree with XpipedreamR............too much chatter for an MS67, but I will say very nice color.
I would much rather put $21k, in a Choice AU Small Eagle Dollar
Just another opinion...............
Good grief.
Tbig
Regardless of my shortcomings about Franklins, my point is this -- I don't think you can get $20,000 out of a Franklin. So it's a low population coin, there are a lot of low population coins. I own a bunch of low population coins. I can point to many that would sell for a fraction of that Franklin.
If you, and the coin's owner, were so confident that the market shared your view of this coin's value, why the moon money reserve? If this coin is worth $20,000, prove me the idiot -- put it back in auction at no reserve and show me it sells for $20,000. Let me know when and where, so I know to shut up and not deter all those people that follow my advice on Franklins.
Seriously, if my comments rubbed you the wrong way I apologize, but I simply find it beyond belief that this coin carries that kind of value, and the fact that you stick a reserve of $20,000 on the coin is not an indicator of value.
Yea, I'd say so. Is that Eye appeal worth the cost, hell no. Just because the market will bear that price at this CURRENT time, with the CURRENT populations, which by nature a bound to increase, does not mean the coin is a good buy at that money. Hell yea I'd like to get that much money if I owned the coin. If I was purchasing the coin, I know that for a long term hold, it would be a very high risk.
Can somebody show me some proof gold?
<< <i>What I do not appreciate is that you came on the thread and acted like you know what you are talking about and may have just cost me a sale had someone been on the fence and seen this garbage talk.
With all due respect, you have got to be kidding. You must be.
I know just the buyer for you. I would contact R&I coins--they are known to be strong buyers of this type of material. Maybe if you call the owner, he will return your call.
Good luck. >>
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
I sure as hell never saw one that looked like this one. If it's not an MS-67,
then I don't know what is.
<< <i>
<< <i>What I do not appreciate is that you came on the thread and acted like you know what you are talking about and may have just cost me a sale had someone been on the fence and seen this garbage talk.
With all due respect, you have got to be kidding. You must be.
I know just the buyer for you. I would contact R&I coins--they are known to be strong buyers of this type of material. Maybe if you call the owner, he will return your call.
Good luck. >>
; >>
This is exactly the sort of coin that all modern dealers would be looking to buy
-YN Currently Collecting & Researching Colonial World Coins, Especially Spanish Coins, With a Great Interest in WWII Militaria.
My Ebay!
Incomprehensible to me that this coin carries that kind of value. Does appear to be NT though.
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
Lot 1661 at B & M's Baltimore ANA show July 30 through August 2nd was a FBL MS67 1948 Franklin. I saw it. It (I think) is the only Franklin I have ever looked at. Don't collect them, don't know much about them. But I was there briefly, and a collector friend of mine who was into Franklins, told me to look at that one, because he thought it was the best he'd ever seen. I thought it was beautiful, but with a lot of unattractive "dirt', (I just don't like that...).
The price realized was $28,750. Dave's coin blows it away, IMO.
Right, Paul!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>All of you that find it "incomprehensible" that this coin is valued as such need to do your homework before your jaw drops or open your mouth.
Lot 1661 at B & M's Baltimore ANA show July 30 through August 2nd was a FBL MS67 1948 Franklin. I saw it. It (I think) is the only Franklin I have ever looked at. Don't collect them, don't know much about them. But I was there briefly, and a collector friend of mine who was into Franklins, told me to look at that one, because he thought it was the best he'd ever seen. I thought it was beautiful, but with a lot of unattractive "dirt', (I just don't like that...).
The price realized was $28,750. Dave's coin blows it away, IMO. >>
You say we need to do our homework, and then say you don't know much about Franklins, now that sure lends a whole lot of credability to your statement.
Anaconda uses the word "worth" We could debate that point. Based on eye appeal alone, to me, the coin is not worth it by a long shot. Wait until the Population goes up, and it will. I've looked at a slew of Franklins since I started collecting them in the late seventies. I've known a lot of collectors, hard core Frankie fanatics. Although that coin is not a run of the mill franklin, it is not 28K rare. Unless your stupid rich, that is a ridiculous price to pay for a Franklin. IMHO That kind of money is better spent on a more classic rarity.
Ah, but there are plenty of people in this world that are stupid rich - which by your statement would indicate that it's ok for them to buy it at that level. Nothing wrong with taking a couple of tries to accomodate one of those people....
<< <i>Unless your stupid rich, that is a ridiculous price to pay for a Franklin.
Ah, but there are plenty of people in this world that are stupid rich - which by your statement would indicate that it's ok for them to buy it at that level. Nothing wrong with taking a couple of tries to accomodate one of those people....
Hey, anybody can do with their money as they please. If your stupid rich, 20K won't hurt you.