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Ethics,&Mr. T
HTubbs
Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭
First of all,I am Mr. T.
I really got bashed on this thread:Link
I think it's time I told my side of the story.First of all I need to make 2 things clear:1.I am not a scammer!
2.Both PHUT & eyoung429 are all reputable members and I respect them both
First I'll tackle the issue in the above thread.
Back on Sept. 21 Earl(eyoung429) purchased several coins from me via paypal and instructed me to ship them out to Tim(PHUT) for a $50 trade they were doing.I shipped them out the next day,and Tim received them on the 23rd.2 of the coins I sold him was a 64-P&D quarter pair in MS-65.However Tim disagreed with me on the grade, he said AU-58.
Now we come to the issue of the 2x2's.
Tim's PM:
<< <i>Hayden,
I'm curious about the date, the AU, and the initials H.T. all being in the same ink? >>
My reply:
<< <i>I bought them raw a year ago,and one dealer that I offered to sell to said they were AU .But when I took them to my local dealer and asked him to grade them.He said they were UNC.So I thought that the other dealer must have been trying to rip me off. >>
Plain and simple, when I first saw them I examined them,they looked MS-65 to me and there was no trace of wear on the high points.So I purchased them,when I went to another dealer to offer them for sale this dealer said they were all AU.I believed him and marked AU on the holders,and since there is a large price difference between an AU and a MS-65 I couldn't sell them without losing money.I had them sitting for a while in my collection.Then when I took them to another dealer and asked him to grade them,he told me they were all Unc.So as stated above I thought the other dealer was trying to rip me off.
Unfortunately I was out of 25c 2x2(and hey why waste 4c?) I whited the AU grade out,and was able to sell them and break even.
I still say they're MS-65,but as I do have a 10 day return priviledge I replied back:
<< <i>Dear Sir,
It appears that I may be the one who was duped.They looked MS to me but I have the right to be wrong.If you would ship the 2 washington 25c back to my address:
xxxxxxx
I'll set this right and paypal the money back to Earl as soon as I get them.
Best Regards,
Hayden >>
His reply:
<< <i>OK >>
Now he didn't get back to me till approx. 15 days later:
<< <i>Hayden,
I think eyoung and I are squared away. I will send the quarters out tomorrow(Saturday) and you can square up with him. It's too bad these aren't ms65s. The 64d has a really cool die break on the eagles left wing.
Tim >>
Now I was very suprised that he hadn't shipped them out.To wait 15 days was inconsiderate on both my and Earl part.As I couldn't get this straitened out until I received the coins,when I could then paypal Earl back his money.
and as you know my reply:
<< <i>Hi Tim,
You haven't mailed the coins out yet!!!!!!
I have a 10 day return privilege from date of reciept,which was the 23rd of Sept.,right?.So that would make the deadline for mailing the coins out Oct. 2nd.
I won't be able to refund Earl his money because of this,so you 2 will have to work it out as you're a week late!
-Hayden >>
His reply:
<< <i>Tell you what Hayden,
Watch the us coin forum this weekend then. Guess the grade/ value / whiteout
<< <i>
In his thread he mentioned the fact that he was never aware of the return policy.
Now was this my fault that he was not aware of the return policy?Earl was the buyer,so he was responsible for the return of the coins.
When I found this out I replied:
<< <i>Well you do have a point,since I didn't mention the return policy,I will refund Earl his money.Although it was wrong on your point to wait 15 days to mail out the coins!
Mail me the coins:
xxxxxxx
Upon reciept I will refund his money via paypal.
-Hayden >>
His reply:
<< <i>Thank you Hayden.
I'll let the thread fade with no names and I will have the coins in the mail on Tuesday. >>
Now I assume he has mailed the coins out,although the thread did not fade and my name was mentioned.I have no offense against him for that as we all need to be on the lookout for scammers and route them out when they are found.
The above issue has been settled,I will refund Earl his money as soon as I get the coins.
I really got bashed on this thread:Link
I think it's time I told my side of the story.First of all I need to make 2 things clear:1.I am not a scammer!
2.Both PHUT & eyoung429 are all reputable members and I respect them both
First I'll tackle the issue in the above thread.
Back on Sept. 21 Earl(eyoung429) purchased several coins from me via paypal and instructed me to ship them out to Tim(PHUT) for a $50 trade they were doing.I shipped them out the next day,and Tim received them on the 23rd.2 of the coins I sold him was a 64-P&D quarter pair in MS-65.However Tim disagreed with me on the grade, he said AU-58.
Now we come to the issue of the 2x2's.
Tim's PM:
<< <i>Hayden,
I'm curious about the date, the AU, and the initials H.T. all being in the same ink? >>
My reply:
<< <i>I bought them raw a year ago,and one dealer that I offered to sell to said they were AU .But when I took them to my local dealer and asked him to grade them.He said they were UNC.So I thought that the other dealer must have been trying to rip me off. >>
Plain and simple, when I first saw them I examined them,they looked MS-65 to me and there was no trace of wear on the high points.So I purchased them,when I went to another dealer to offer them for sale this dealer said they were all AU.I believed him and marked AU on the holders,and since there is a large price difference between an AU and a MS-65 I couldn't sell them without losing money.I had them sitting for a while in my collection.Then when I took them to another dealer and asked him to grade them,he told me they were all Unc.So as stated above I thought the other dealer was trying to rip me off.
Unfortunately I was out of 25c 2x2(and hey why waste 4c?) I whited the AU grade out,and was able to sell them and break even.
I still say they're MS-65,but as I do have a 10 day return priviledge I replied back:
<< <i>Dear Sir,
It appears that I may be the one who was duped.They looked MS to me but I have the right to be wrong.If you would ship the 2 washington 25c back to my address:
xxxxxxx
I'll set this right and paypal the money back to Earl as soon as I get them.
Best Regards,
Hayden >>
His reply:
<< <i>OK >>
Now he didn't get back to me till approx. 15 days later:
<< <i>Hayden,
I think eyoung and I are squared away. I will send the quarters out tomorrow(Saturday) and you can square up with him. It's too bad these aren't ms65s. The 64d has a really cool die break on the eagles left wing.
Tim >>
Now I was very suprised that he hadn't shipped them out.To wait 15 days was inconsiderate on both my and Earl part.As I couldn't get this straitened out until I received the coins,when I could then paypal Earl back his money.
and as you know my reply:
<< <i>Hi Tim,
You haven't mailed the coins out yet!!!!!!
I have a 10 day return privilege from date of reciept,which was the 23rd of Sept.,right?.So that would make the deadline for mailing the coins out Oct. 2nd.
I won't be able to refund Earl his money because of this,so you 2 will have to work it out as you're a week late!
-Hayden >>
His reply:
<< <i>Tell you what Hayden,
Watch the us coin forum this weekend then. Guess the grade/ value / whiteout
<< <i>
In his thread he mentioned the fact that he was never aware of the return policy.
Now was this my fault that he was not aware of the return policy?Earl was the buyer,so he was responsible for the return of the coins.
When I found this out I replied:
<< <i>Well you do have a point,since I didn't mention the return policy,I will refund Earl his money.Although it was wrong on your point to wait 15 days to mail out the coins!
Mail me the coins:
xxxxxxx
Upon reciept I will refund his money via paypal.
-Hayden >>
His reply:
<< <i>Thank you Hayden.
I'll let the thread fade with no names and I will have the coins in the mail on Tuesday. >>
Now I assume he has mailed the coins out,although the thread did not fade and my name was mentioned.I have no offense against him for that as we all need to be on the lookout for scammers and route them out when they are found.
The above issue has been settled,I will refund Earl his money as soon as I get the coins.
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
Unfortunately I was out of 25c 2x2(and hey why waste 4c?) I whited the AU grade out,and was able to sell them and break even.
See - it's the FLIPS
Lack of coin flips will ruin any dealer
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I guess keeping transactions between two parties makes it simple and timely communication with follow up is a good thing as well.
I would never ever send coins to any party other than the one purchasing them from me.
Joe.
I had a sour deal with him, too, but all is forgiven now.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
The buyer is guilty of nothing but trust and payment. The receiver of said merchandise said the following..." the fact that all high points have rub (no luster) is the reason I scraped the whiteout. He admitted that he tried to sell them to a dealer and the dealer told him they were AU and that's why he wrote AU originally. He then decides on his own to upgrade them to ms-65. That's quite a jump ya think?" (Quote/ un-quote Phut)
Again, as proven by a couple recent threads, ("Outrage of the day" and "I'm so mad") dealers seemingly are able to obtain higher grades, whether it's because they know how to present coins in a particular fashion or because they are members of a so-called "Good Ole Boy" Network, it matters not because this "Seven point swing" is a common everyday occurrence in any coin shop, located Anywhere USA. This is how dealers make money, plain and simple....Buy for as little as possible - Sell for as much as possible. If it wasn't this way, no coin dealer would be in business for very long.
OK. so we have 1)- a trusting buyer and 2)- the owner of some coins that can't reach a conclusion as to grade because one person is telling him one thing while someone else is telling him something completely different. Mr. Tubbs, sir, I suggest you learn how to grade on your own. Take ANA correspondence courses, buy reference books, set yourself up under proper lighting and practice, practice, practice....otherwise you will be in for a lot of bad deals in which you will be "taken". How can you go hunting with no weapon?
Phut, from what I can make out, isn't sharp as a tack when it comes to grading either. He has openly admitted it and besides, he probably didn't want to make waves or step on anyone's toes which explains why he waited so long, until he just couldn't take it anymore and decided to scratch off and speak up which brings us back to Tubbs and those flips.
If you were in doubt, you shouldn't have pawned the lesson you were made to learn off on an innocent person, particularly a fellow Forum member/ Collectors Club Member. I see your credentials on your sig line that you are among other things, an ANA Member. If you had serious doubt, you shouldn't have as this could be deemed "unethical"/ conduct unbecoming that of an ANA member. What did you in was White Out and your inability to reach a conclusion concerning these particular coins. As they say, "All's well that ends well" and on a good note, thankfully no one got hurt here and the issue has been resolved.
Of course, this is solely, specifically, my own humble opinion after weighing all that was presented and said here. I'm sure Mr. Tubbs is a fine fellow and given the chance to do it all over again......................................