The MS63+ Barber Half Debate

Cratylus · September 10, 2004 3:07PM

THE CLAIM
In a recent thread, I made the following comment about MS Barber Halves:

<< <i>I could go online right now to about a dozen or so websites and, if I had the available cash, I could purchase about 40 of the 73 dates in this series in MS63 or better in a few hours. >>

THE CHALLENGE
One person, who will remain anonymous, sent me a private message about this statement. He said that I was "a nonsensical blowhard" who "doesn't have the first clue about the scarcity of choice and gem UNC Barber Halves." He went on to say that he bet I couldn't back up that statement. He said that, at best, I would be able to find "maybe 15-20 coins" grading MS63 or better in PCGS or NGC slabs.

Ok, let me first say that I was impressed that this guy could deduce from one of my postings, and without even knowing me, that I am a nonsensical blowhard. Normally it takes people weeks to figure this out about me. I told the guy that I would take him up on his bet since I was bored and simply wanted to prove him wrong. The ground rules were:

1) Limit my coin selections to 12 websites; I could visit as many as I wanted to, but I could only "purchase" from 12.
2) Limit my coin selections to coins available for immediate purchase; I was not allowed to include coins that were listed "at auction" since there would be no guarantee I would actually win the coin, nor would I be able presumably to win the coin within the time period allotted below.
3) Limit my coin selections to PCGS and NGC graded MS63 or better coins.
4) Limit my search to 3 hours or less.
5) I would have a theoretically unlimited supply of cash on hand to buy these coins.

Now that you know the ground rules, what actually happened?

THE RESULTS

I visited a total of 34 coin websites from 8:10pm until 9:30pm Eastern Time. I narrowed my list of websites that I would "purchase" from to 12. I decided to "purchase" the highest graded date/mint mark if I found more than one of the same date/mint mark available.

So was I able to find 40 Barber Halves in PCGS or NGC MS63+ available for purchase on those 12 websites? No I wasn't...

I was able to find 51 such Barber Halves with an average grade of 64.76!!! Below are the results of my search, in case anyone is interested.

I used the following 12 internet coin dealers/websites for my theoretical purchases:

American Numismatic Rarities
Carolina Coin
David Lawrence
Ebay (Stores and 'Buy It Now')
Ellesmere Numismatics
Harry Laibstain Rare Coins
Heritage Rare Coin Galleries
John Hamrick Rare Coins
Legend Numismatics
Park Avenue Numismatics
Pinnacle Rarities
Superior Galleries

Here is what I was able to find in just 80 minutes of looking:

Date Website TPG MS $$$

1892 Superior NGC 66 4375
1892-O Lawrence PCGS 64 2250
1893 Heritage PCGS 66 6650
1893-O Pinnacle PCGS 64 2600
1893-S Lawrence NGC 64 8400
1894-O Heritage NGC 65 5350
1894-S Heritage NGC 65 10250
1895 Heritage NGC 65 2650
1895-O Lawrence NGC 64 2650
1895-S Park Avenue NGC 66 14250
1896 Lawrence NGC 65 4750
1896-S Heritage PCGS 66 20750
1897 Ebay PCGS 65 3450
1897-O Hamrick NGC 64 5085
1897-S Heritage NGC 66 9050
1898 Ellesmere NGC 64 1430
1898-O Lawrence NGC 66 10900
1899 Heritage NGC 63 720
1899-O Hamrick PCGS 64 3390
1899-S Heritage NGC 66 10500
1900-S Ebay PCGS 65 9750
1901 Ebay PCGS 64 1250
1901-O Hamrick NGC 66 16095
1902 Ebay PCGS 64 1300
1903 Lawrence NGC 64 4650
1905-O Ebay PCGS 65 4250
1906 Carolina PCGS 63 760
1906-D Ebay PCGS 65 3650
1906-O Hamrick NGC 64 3164
1906-S Laibstain NGC 63 1650
1907 American PCGS 65 2899
1907-D Park Avenue NGC 68 45030
1907-O Pinnacle NGC 66 5750
1908 Pinnacle PCGS 66 7500
1908-D Ebay NGC 65 2175
1908-O Heritage PCGS 66 5750
1909 Ebay PCGS 65 2650
1910 Legend PCGS 65 4250
1910-S Hamrick PCGS 64 4520
1911 Lawrence PCGS 65 3000
1911-D Heritage PCGS 63 870
1911-S Lawrence PCGS 64 2175
1912 Ebay NGC 64 995
1912-D Pinnacle PCGS 65 3100
1912-S American PCGS 65 6000
1913-D Hamrick NGC 65 4520
1913-S Park Avenue NGC 65 5320
1914 Lawrence PCGS 64 3400
1914-S Ebay NGC 63 925
1915-D Heritage NGC 65 2550
1915-S Lawrence NGC 64 1250

51 dates found, average grade = 64.76, total cost $289,168.

Actually, I probably could've done a little better than 51 except for the fact that few of my favorite websites for finding these high grade Barbers were down with server problems.

The next time you are awed by the beauty of those ultra high-grade registry sets of Barber Halves, try to temper your amazement with just a little dose of reality. Just remember that they are more a function of cash than anything else. It's fairly telling that with the available cash, I could assemble exactly 70% of this set from 12 websites in 80 minutes. And people wonder why I appreciate the painstaking efforts of an average collector of modest means who tries to put together a set of Barber Halves in F or VF or XF or AU.

I will say one thing for those high grade sets: they are really nice to look at.

sliderider · September 10, 2004 3:12PM

After reading this, I may have to put circulated Barber halves on my 'to do' list.

Cratylus · September 10, 2004 3:17PM

I will warn you. They are an addiction once you get started. To find one that has circulated enough to get some of that grayish brown patina on it but not enough to wear away the main details... these coins have an amazing beauty, especially if you appreciate originality. Oh sure, they aren't as flashy as the MS stuff, but they are much, much more difficult to locate. It makes assembling a complete set a really rewarding accomplishment.

sliderider · September 10, 2004 3:24PM

Don't celebrate your conversion efforts, too soon. I still think Barber designs are butt ugly.

I do like a challenge, though, and if VF-AU stuff is as hard to find as you say, it sounds like it would be fun. I have a while to go before I can do it, though. I have too many sets started already that need closure.

stman · September 10, 2004 3:26PM

How many in 63 are available that are 'Original" like the circulated ones you speak of? I believe this would make a HUGE difference in your "survey."

ARCO · September 10, 2004 3:36PM

I agree Cary. Finding MS Barber halves is more a function of money than time for many of the dates. A few dates obviously take some time; like the 96-O, 01-S and 04-S to name a few, (There was a gem 1901-S on Heritage a few days back). Other dates that are very difficult for scarcity and/or poor strike are the 1900-O, 1901-O, 1902-O, 1904-O, & 1907-S.

However, finding MS coins with nice eye appeal is a whole 'nuther matter, and finding properly graded coins is not always an easy task. Just because they are slabbed by PCGS or NGC doesn't necessarily mean they really are the stated grade. As an example, that 1896-S MS66 on Heritage looks like a beat dog in 63 or 64 to me. Also, that 1898-O in 66 on Dave Lawrence's site has a lot of marks on the face and looks awfully bad for such a lofty grade it was given. Who wants to spend $10-20K on a coin that is one to two points off?

Perhaps, that is why I love the halves in VF-AU; they are a fraction of the price and soooo difficult to find nice and original. I am going on five years collecting and still have not found a 1907-O or 1904-O in VF20-XF40 that has that dirty two tone look I like.....five friggin years!

If I had not stumbled on to three separate sets being sold off during my five year collecting span, I would have given up and I would NOT have completed my set with coins of my liking. I picked up over twenty coins from a lifelong collector who passed away.

Tyler

Cratylus · September 10, 2004 3:50PM

Tyler, I agree.

But I would say that finding those MS65 coins with better eye appeal falls under the second phase of set building. With the advent of registry sets, many people care what that little paper ticket says. If it says "MS65" then that's what gets counted in their registry. If it's really a beat down dog of a 62, it doesn't matter. What counts toward the registry is that little "65" on the ticket. Oh sure, the collector will want to upgrade to a nicer looking 65 or a 66 when they come across it. But the main thrust of my little project was to simply point out that assembling the bulk of the set in an average grade of MS64 ain't all it's cracked up to be. I think it's much tougher to assemble a set with an average grade of VF30.

Cratylus · September 10, 2004 3:58PM

<< <i>How many in 63 are available that are 'Original" like the circulated ones you speak of? I believe this would make a HUGE difference in your "survey." >>

The fact that PCGS and NGC have slabbed all the coins on my list is proof enough of their originality, at least as far as the credos of PCGS and NGC are concerned. After all, they'll flat out tell you that a very slight dip of an MS coin won't necessarily preclude it from their slabs. It may looked dipped out, but it was nice enough to be considered an original coin by them. If it wasn't, they would've bodybagged it. Right?

Now, if you want to compare apples to apples, I say "fine." Please find 51 PCGS and NGC slabbed VF or XF graded Barber Halves on only 12 websites in under 80 minutes. Good luck. And by the way, let me know in 10 years or so when you've come close to finding the 51 coins.

Casey · September 10, 2004 4:03PM

Interesting post!

Cratylus · September 10, 2004 4:20PM

To clarify one thing...

Keep in mind that for Registry Set purposes, my "butt ugly dog of an MS61" that happens to reside in an MS63 slab is BETTER than your "undergraded MS64 with absolutely showstopping eye appeal" that happens to reside in an MS62 slab. In the wonderful world of Registry Sets, the coin doesn't matter; what matters is the printing on the paper slab ticket.

Registry sets: [sarcasm] They're a wonderful thing, aren't they! [/sarcasm]

stman · September 10, 2004 4:23PM

I understand your point and I appreciate circulated original Barbers, and Uncirculated original Barbers. I don't search numbers, I search coins.

My point being, yes I have no doubt you can search the net and find a bunch of widgets (whether PCGS and NGC slabbed them doesn't matter.)
Like Tyler says, find the uncirculated ones that are original, eye-appealing, and graded correctly. My point also is yes that will limit the amount available considerably. NO?

Cratylus · September 10, 2004 4:34PM

Stman, I agree.

I like to " stir the puddin' " around here from time to time. So I take wild positions on things and then try to defend them. It gets the debate and discussion going, which in my opinion, is a good thing. It also tends to make me look like a complete fool from time to time... which, if you ask many of the board members, is a VERY good thing. HaHa!

Obviously, finding MS coins with the best eye appeal takes time. For that matter, finding just about ANY grade of coin with the best eye appeal takes time. I'm always looking to upgrade when a nicer looking coin comes around. I was only trying to point out that the MS Barber Half set isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Now, the UNC set where every coin has stunning eye appeal... even I, the Great Cynic, will prostrate myself in utter humility before it... just maybe not as much as I will toward a VF-XF set of equal originality and eye appeal!

stman · September 10, 2004 4:36PM

It's all good.

sliderider · September 10, 2004 4:44PM

This might be a good set to build from bodybags. Otherwise nice MS pieces with light cleaning or rim dings or other minor defects, would probably make a good looking set for VF-XF money.

ccex · September 10, 2004 4:55PM

Here's a real life story some of you may have read before about one dealer's hunt to complete a Barber Half set in original F-VF

Randy Holder (pardon his pop-ups)

sliderider · September 10, 2004 5:00PM

Bookmarked that one. His system for determining PQ circulated coins is going to come in very useful, I believe.

originalisbest · September 10, 2004 5:05PM

I've gotten a nice half from Randy in the past.

"Real deal" original AND nice circ Barber Halfs and Quarters are EXTREMELY tough, and a fun challenge to collect. Dimes seem a tad "easier", keys excluded. But I have really come to appreciate seeing any nice, original circ Barber, and I enjoy the few I have.

Many thanks to Jon at RCONH for providing not a few such nice circ Barbers!

GOLDSAINT · September 10, 2004 11:00PM

CRATYLUS, Excellent work.
This is exactly the point that I, and a very few others, have made to some of our very well healed friends here. Collecting high-end sets truly becomes a function of capital. Just think if you had $500,000 to spend, and some of our friends here have millions, to build the basics of a Barber half set. Rather than having a few hours you set a mental time of 6 months.
In addition you send want lists to 10 major dealers and tell them to go to work. In the registry arena you would race past 80% of the competitors in the first few days.
For most of us in the hobby there has to be a balance of budgeting and buying, for some of us this is not the case.
This is not a bad thing, just a hard fact of collecting. The auction process is much different for the truly wealthy that can instruct their bidders to, “Just go buy the coin”,
as compared to someone even willing to pay 20% over retail.
In addition to high end set builders many rare issue coins are being pushed to the moon by very wealthy type set collectors. Are there really that many wealthy early dollar and half collectors that don’t own high-end pieces in their collections? Can many of the average set collectors in these areas pay today’s prices? Who is causing the value of many of these one-year of issue coins to go through the roof? Wealth type set collectors that instruct their bidders to, “Just go buy the coin”.

nwcs · September 10, 2004 11:35PM

Interesting post. Very interesting. Hey, that guy referenced in the link is only about 30-40 miles from me. Ought to pay him a visit.

Cratylus · September 11, 2004 11:20AM

Thanks, Everyone, for the comments. I appreciate them. I just wanted to prove a point that many of us have tried to hammer home with people. I hope my quick experiment the other night has helped to do that.

Randy Holder is a personal friend of mine. He is the person who originally got me hooked on midgrade Barber Halves. He has impeccable character and will not do you wrong. He has a really good eye for quality coins.

Coinosaurus · September 11, 2004 11:29AM

Cratylus-

The problem with your experiment is that probably half of those coins you found are UGLY!

If you can assemble most of the set in a couple hours on the net, what's the point? It's much more interesting to try and find really eye appealing coins over time (as you have discovered with circulated coins).

MFH · September 11, 2004 11:49AM

Cratylus,

What an interesting post. I agreed with your original claim that a majority of the dates could be located in MS63+ but I had no idea that you could do so in just 80 minutes. Wish I had a spare $289K+

to have this set. The missing dates are very tough to locate in AU 55-58 as well. My signiture line shows which coins I still need and I too have been searching for a few years. I not only have PCGS and NGC coins, but also ANACS and ICG as well as a few still raw which I have not bothered having holdered yet. When I actually complete this set, any raw coins will be sent into PCGS ... the ANACS & ICG coins will be cracked out and submitted raw as well ( I have learned my lesson on submitting coins for cross over) . I very well may leave the NGC coins in their original holders. At this point its just not a burning issue with me.

So, what was the bet ?

Sandhawk · September 11, 2004 11:49AM

Good luck finding a nice 63 or better 1900 Half

coltgus · September 11, 2004 12:08PM

This thread brings up a larger point. Collections of various things (including coins) which used to take a lifetime to put together can now usually be done in much less time because of the internet. Also, rarity and price have been clarified. For example, I deal in rare and out of print books. Before websites like abebooks.com if you wanted a certain book you had a real problem, now there may be several for sale on the site and there is competitive pricing. If the book is not on one of these sites it IS rare. Is this good or bad ? I don't know but I feel for people that spent 40 years looking for something and 5 are available right now.

michael · September 11, 2004 12:16PM

go and try to find sight seen a pcgs upper end for the grade ms65 barber half that is totally original

great eye appeal
thick skinned never dipped original white coin

and this is rarer than any xf barber half

michael

MFH · September 11, 2004 12:26PM

I should say MOST XF Barber Halves, but certainly not ALL XF Barber Halves

Cratylus · September 11, 2004 8:36PM

<< <i>go and try to find sight seen a pcgs upper end for the grade ms65 barber half that is totally original

great eye appeal
thick skinned never dipped original white coin

and this is rarer than any xf barber half >>

Done. Took exactly 6 minutes. 1892 PCGS MS65 that fits your criteria.

Now it's your turn. Put your money where your mouth is. I want a photo of a PCGS upper end for the grade XF Barber Half that is being sold that is totally original, great eye appeal, never dipped coin with the correct toning scheme. Since you said your item was "rarer than ANY XF Barber Half", I want this coin to be one of the following dates: 1893-S, 1896-O, 1897-O, 1898-O, 1901-S, 1904-O, 1904-S, or 1905-O.

Oh, and by the way, let me know in 10 years when you've located one.

sliderider · September 11, 2004 9:04PM

Look at the registry phenomana this way. Everyone will be unloading all their lower grade pieces to raise funds to buy the high grade slabs. There should be a flood of VF-AU pieces appearing as the battle rages and everyone starts to upgrade.

MFH · September 12, 2004 12:27AM

Michael,

Add to Cratylus' request: AU 55 - 58 Barber Halves, PCGS or NGC, of the following dates:

(See signiture line)

I'll even pay a finders fee !

roadrunner · September 12, 2004 1:18AM

Without viewing that MS65 slabbed Barber in hand I wouldn't assume that has never been dipped. There's a fine line between crusty never dipped and "whitish" everything else. I recently sold a white PCGS MS66 in what could have been orig white undipped condition. But to be honest, no one was quite sure. And the dealer who bought the coin a year ago still has it in stock. It looks no different than this 65 as far as color or fabric.

And I think by "any XF" barber half Michael was implying "any XF barber half 1892-1916." It could be interpreted either way.
Likewise, one could say that your MS65 barber is not crusty enough to be unequivocably undipped original. Find a crustier WHITE one please that removes all doubt. On second thought, make your MS65 any one of the XF's you listed in original undipped white. That's no different than specifying tough dates for your XF. Just might take you a few years too.

Someone mentioned XF/AU 1907-s half as being really tough. Here's one going off on ebay at 3:45 pm PST. It's definitely original too. NGC AU53 and it appears to be an AU50.

Sorry, cannot get this to link: ebay 3928696996

roadrunner

jom · September 12, 2004 2:06AM

Interesting post. I would only like to add that just because you can FIND these coins in those grades doesn't mean you would really want to BUY any of them. Just because they are slabbed doesn't really mean they have eye appeal.

Also, after being at the LB show this week I'm now more convinced than ever (as if I wasn't before..HA!) that just because a coin is slabbed by NO means implies "originality". That is, quite frankly, a myth.

jom

mgoodm3 · September 12, 2004 2:23AM

Steve estes has about 40 VF-AU barbers but they're in ANACS holders. Of the ones listed above there is an MS60 05-O there, close .

ARCO · September 12, 2004 2:42AM

For the Barber halves it ALL boils down to eye appeal and originality. Even though coins are graded by PCGS or NGC, in grades XF through MS65 MOST ARE cleaned or dipped. PCGS, NGC and ANACS have graded hundreds of crap coins that should not be holdered.

The AU 1907-S on Ebay 1907-S NGC AU53 is the perfect example. It HAS Been harshly cleaned and while it retains some dirt to look like it is original, massive hairlines can be seen on the coin...NGC graded it. Most of the coins at Steve Estes site in those ANACS holders are also junk coins in ANACS holders (sorry Steve). Believe me, I visit his site daily and have bought over 30 barber halves from him. I bought an ANACS 1896-O and 1904-O both in VF35 from that same run of Barbers at Steve's site, and vomited when I opened them and saw their horror staring back at me. LOL

Finding Barbers with great eye appeal and originality is mostly a struggle in futility. That is what makes the series so challenging and rewarding when nice coins can be found. For those who collect the coins in MS and are picky, then they have their work cut out for them no doubt, likewise for the F-AU collectors who stick to the same demanding criteria of originality and an appealing look.

Tyler

ARCO · September 12, 2004 2:52AM

Just so Steve Estes knows how glad I am for those whole Barber collections that helped me finish my set I wanted to share some nice original Barber halves that I purchased from him. Every coin shown was purchased from Steve Estes. Thanks Steve!!

1892-S VF35
1894-S XF40
1898-O VF25...Tough date in VF!!
1899-O XF40
1897-O VF20
1900-O VF35
1901-O VF25 1901-S VF20
1901-S VF35
1902-O XF40
1903-O XF40
1903-S XF40
1907-S VF30
1909-S XF40
1913 VF30

There are more, but that was a nice sampling of some of the better dates. Steve, thanks again.

Tyler

roadrunner · September 12, 2004 3:01AM

The assumptions of the thread have been essentially what we find in slabs. If we start to include what is eye appealing, of good value, fairly priced, etc. what does that say? You can pick almost every pre-1916 series except Lincolns, Indians, and Morgans and find almost nothing to buy if you take the perfect original coin to the nth degree. Apply that to better dated seated liberty quarters and you will find next to nothing in problem free VF-AU as well as UNC. this makes the barbers look like wheat cents. It's all relative. If we tried to collect only truly unc coinage prior to 1853, there wouldn't be any.
The whole spectrum is drastically overgraded. 30 years ago, 75% of the coins now called UNC would have been AU's.

That 1907-s half in a slab may be crud but imo not massively cleaned as Arco stated. Arco is no doubt a perfectionist in his series and has very very high standards. I wouldn't buy that half either. But there are a dozen other date collectors of Barbers for every Arco and they have lower standards. At least for now.

roadrunner

ARCO · September 12, 2004 3:28AM

If we start to include what is eye appealing, of good value, fairly priced, etc. what does that say? You can pick almost every pre-1916 series except Lincolns, Indians, and Morgans and find almost nothing to buy if you take the perfect original coin to the nth degree. Apply that to better dated seated liberty quarters and you will find next to nothing in problem free VF-AU as well as UNC. this makes the barbers look like wheat cents. It's all relative. If we tried to collect only truly unc coinage prior to 1853, there wouldn't be any.

Perfectly stated Roadrunner and I agree. Perfect (whatever that is) originality shouldn't be the end all be all, but more of the ideal one seeks. It is tough to see that beautiful original coin in whatever series and not desire that ALL the others be of the same quality. It makes collecting exponentially more challenging and frustrating for those caught in its insidious grips! LOL

Tyler

TWQG · September 12, 2004 3:32AM

Bottom line- Cratylus more than substantiated his claim and I'm glad the real 'nonsensical blowhard' chose to remain anonymous. The parsing and weaving around his original assertion is fun to watch.

MFH · September 12, 2004 8:26AM

Tyler,

Cratylus turned me onto Steve Estes' web site - as I see you tried to keep it a secret - LOL.

The coins you got from Steve are great. I'm checking his site frequently now. ( Yes, I've seen the 05-O in the ANACS holder MS60).

I picked up an 1894-O NGC 55 from DLRC. Just got it yesterday. Its deep cobalt blue rims and deep golden fields and the central devices are soft grey. Neat looking coin, but considerably darker than the rest of the set. Its close in color though to my 1895-O . Have not yet received my 1903-P from Jack Beymer. It should get here the beginning of the week.

With the threat of Hurricane Ivan, I put everything into the bank vault, so now I have just a few odds and ends to study should the mood arise. I ran accross a long forgotten set tucked into a "secret" drawer, a 1917 mint set ( all P mints, with a Ty.1 quarter) It was a gift to my dad on his 75th birthday a dozen years ago.

Hope all's well with you and your's.

The hurricane is heading far west of us into the Gulf, but the poor people in the Panhandle will get the brunt of it. I'd beat feet out of there if I were them.

I was all prepared to evacuate to Ft Lauderdale if it came thru here.

Later,
Mike

DrPete · September 13, 2004 12:26AM

I have enjoyed reading this thread and agree with many, if not most, of the key points. It has taken me 10 years plus to assemble a mint state set and I have bought and sold many along the way that weren't all that nice. Also, within the 74 coins in my set, there are some I would like to replace when the right coins come along. All are imaged, but I haven't yet perfected my digital photography skills.

While I was assembling the better part of my mint state set, I felt at most times that money was the limiting factor for me obtaining coins that were available. Not all available coins are worth adding to my set and I tried my best to buy the nice coins regardless of any subjective grade on the slab's insert. I could have completed the set much more quickly with unlimited funds. A BIG part of what makes a collection worthwhile is the effort put forth to finish it. If you were able to afford an intact mint state set of barber halves (or any other similar set) the time spent searching and interacting with dealers and collectors would not occur. Much of the joy of collecting is in the HUNT!

I also love barber halves in original circulated grades and it has taken me about 10 years to put together a set in F/VF that is not too bad. Actually, I was more proud of it until I saw Tyler's set which blows mine away. Along the way I have assembeled and purchased 4 additional sets that are mostly G to VG with occasional AG's in some sets. These activities have allowed me to have non-slabbed coins that I can touch, hold and look at and not have to worry so much about the value and security as one does with an uncirc set. I toyed with an XF/AU set but find AU coins to run an extensive gamut from nice to ugly (mostly ugly) and I have a harder time pricing and grading the gamut of AU coins than any others. If I were to ever go for an AU set I would definitely go for nice slabbed examples to avoid as many problem coins as possible. And don't worry Mike, I have NO interest in assembling an AU set.

MFH · September 13, 2004 2:59AM

I know I must be loosing it when I see what I thought was a PM appear on the US Forum...sorry guys.

MFH · September 13, 2004 3:08AM

Peter...If you were to start an AU set, you have one leg up on me from the get-go. If you catch my drift.

This set is considerably harder than originally thought. Once I got the 04-S, I was dillusional thinking the rest would somehow magically appear.

I'm still kicking myself for not bidding higher on Cratylus' 1901-S NGC 58. DUMB-DUMB-DUMB.

...and so you know I have not lost it completely, I know this is a POST and not a PM !

dorkkarl · September 13, 2004 3:33AM

it doesn't surprise me.

now, try to find 51 barber halves in origina xf grade.

K S

moosesr · September 13, 2004 6:16AM

I have learned a lot from this post about Barber coins. I didn't realize there was much difference in the certified Barber coins. I am wanting to pick up a few Barber Halves and Quarters in AU, in fact I just bought a 1893-S in ANACS AU50 Barber Quarter that looks pretty nice to me. I bought it sight unseen and was suprised at how much luster the coin had. Could some of you Barber collectors post some pictures of high and low end quarter and half dollar coins that you can expect to find in AU?

Thanks,
Charlie

DrPete · September 13, 2004 6:26AM

Here's another notion for this thread. Although Cratylus showed us very convincingly that nearly 2/3-rds of a set was available at a single time as he described, this is generally not how the current finest sets have been assembled. Interestingly, the run of barber halves in the Louis Eliasberg collection were purchased by Mr. Eliasberg as one intact group (along with many other coins) from the Clapp estate. He was able to obtain a complete set (proofs for the P-mints) intact.

The current three top-ranked PCGS registry sets for barber halves in circulation strike all took from 10-15 years to complete. Steve Duckor's set is the finest by far and he has been extremely selective and purchased only high-end coins with original toning. The selling of Dr. Thaine Price's collection was a major source for Steve's coins. The second finest set of Dale Friend has virtually all originally toned coins as well. My set comes in a somewhat distant third and has toned and white coins. My set out of these three would be most open to ridicule over the quality of the coins and the lack of uniformity of the eye appeal.

What should really be fun, interesting, and educational is the barber half dollar showdown that is being planned by PCGS for the February Long Beach show. I can't wait to see these three sets side-by-side at the PCGS table and look at three complete mint state sets that all average over MS 65. I can't imagine that even two such sets have ever been displayed together before. I will certainly spend my time happily looking over the coins and comparing and enjoying them.

The MS63+ Barber Half Debate

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