1883 Racketeer nickel ?

Vet · August 25, 2004 5:40AM

Can anyone tell by these pics if this is authentic ?

Russ · August 25, 2004 5:47AM

Modern day fake.

Russ, NCNE

kryptonitecomics · August 25, 2004 5:48AM

I can tell that it is an authentic Gold Plated Liberty Head Nickel, but when it was gold plated can not be determined.

Anyone can take an 1883 and gold plated it and as far as I know it would be nearly impossible to tell when it was done.

lordmarcovan · August 25, 2004 5:48AM

No.

If by "authentic" you mean plated in the 1880's to pass as a five-dollar gold piece, it's hard to prove. I've heard one thing to look for is a "reeded" edge, though- your more sophisticated crooks would attempt to add one to the nickel to make it seem more like a half-eagle.

Aside from that, I don't know of any way to distinguish early "racketeer" nickels from ones plated in modern times.

Vet · August 25, 2004 5:52AM

Russ by modern fake do you mean that its not a real v nickel or not real gold plate.

Russ · August 25, 2004 5:55AM

<< <i>Russ by modern fake do you mean that its not a real v nickel or not real gold plate. >>

I mean it was not plated in the 1880's and passed off as a $5 gold piece. The vast majority of these floating around at shows and on eBay were plated much more recently.

Russ, NCNE

lordmarcovan · August 25, 2004 5:56AM

I think Russ means it's a modern plating job, though I'd like to find out how he knows that for sure. The authenticity of the nickel or the gold plating themselves is not in doubt. It's a real nickel and most likely real gold (albeit a very thin layer of it). The only question is when it was plated.

Edit: well there you have it. He's right. Most are modern plate jobs. Still interesting curiosities, though.

Russ · August 25, 2004 5:57AM

<< <i>though I'd like to find out how he knows that for sure. >>

Just playing the odds.

Russ, NCNE

ss350camaro · August 25, 2004 6:29AM

Ok, So we agree it a real 1883 "V" Nickel.

We agree it's Gold plated (just like it would have been in 1883)

So then doesn't that make it an authentic 1883 Racketeer nickel ?

Unless you can positively date the Gold plating i doubt anyone can prove or disprove when it was done ?

lordmarcovan · August 25, 2004 6:40AM

That's the point. "Authentic" is a nebulous term here. It's an authentic coin, so you could make a case that it is an "authentic" Racketeer nickel. But some folks interpret "authentic" on these to mean the contemporary pieces done in the 1880's, and as mentioned, there is little way of proving when they were plated.

However, I doubt most modern folks who plate these will go through the trouble of attempting to put a reeded edge on the coins, as a 19th century racketeer might have, if he were to try and pass it as a $5.00 gold piece. So a reeded edge is one hallmark of a period piece- what most collectors would refer to as "authentic".

ss350camaro · August 25, 2004 6:44AM

<< <i>a reeded edge is one hallmark of a period piece- what most collectors would refer to as "authentic". >>

Ahhh . ... I see oh wise 'tector' Man / Holey of Holeys !

The 'reeded edge' is the best tell

lordmarcovan · August 25, 2004 6:47AM

'S far as I know. There may be other methods.

lordmarcovan · August 25, 2004 6:50AM

BTW, if anybody has one with a hole in it and good plating on it, I'm in the market for a hat piece.

I would prefer an "authentic" one with a reeded edge, but if I gotta take a modern-plated one, I will. Just don't drill one- I'd prefer to find one already holed.

NoGvmnt · August 25, 2004 6:53AM

It's an authentic "modern" Racketeer Nickel. There, done.

Jim

Vet · August 25, 2004 7:53AM

Well Im glad we cleared that up .Thanks everyone. The edge on this one is smooth.

Larry

Conder101 · August 25, 2004 8:47AM

Something to consider. The contemporary racketeer nickels would have been mintstate when they were plated. If they remained in circulation the plating would have worn off in the same pattern that the coin would wear. So if you had a contemporary racketeer nickel that was worn the worn area should show silver-gray not gold. By the time it gets down to VF the gold should only be around the edges of the devices, the protected area around the stars, and in the deepest lines of the hair. If you see an 83 NC that is gold all over and it has any wear then it is NOT contemporary. Now you could still fake a contemporary racketeer by gold plating Mint State V nickels but I doubt if too much of that is going on.

lordmarcovan · August 25, 2004 9:40AM

Excellent point!

Libertad · August 25, 2004 1:33PM

I have read differing accounts of the reeding as a sign of authentically bogus vs. modern bogus racketeer 1883's.

Agree that if the gold wash is worn commensurate with the wear of the mint issue coin, the nickel may/or may not be from the
original period, but the wear is easy to simulate in a short time. If the gold wash is complete, and the nickel is worn, not an older
model.

The history mentions the Josh Tatum story, and newspaper accounts bear out than he was caught with hundreds of the gold washed
nickels in his possession at the time of the arrest. There is historical reference to the notion that multiple 'racketeers' of the time
passed similar gold washed and gold plated coins. He wasn't the sole perp, but was the most referenced and is remembered in conjunction
with the coin.

Tatum's partner in his deception is listed variously as a pawn shop owner who was experienced in gold plating, and others mention
his partner was a jeweler. He may have had more than one.
Reeding may or may not have been done for his coins, no mention that I can find a reference for states one way or the other.

The other criminal type involved may have evolved into reeded edges, but the certainty is that modern 'racketeers' who cater
primarily to the numismatic market nowadays would reed the coins by hand, or using devices of their times.

Reeding IMHO isn't definitive of an older deception, though neither is the lack of reeding.

I think the interesting part of the story is that the racketeer nickels were designed to part folks from their money deceptively
in 1883, and the practice has continued nonstop through today, generation upon generation of unsuspecting or purposeful fraud.
The gift that keeps on giving!

For the reference of multiple crooks involved, check out the ANA audiopages, cool site with a couple of racketeer nickel audios.
ANA MoneyTalks audio archives

Conder101 · August 26, 2004 5:37AM

The Josh Tatum story is a fiction. While there are contemporary newspaper reports of the passing of plated coins I don't believe there are any that actually mention a Josh Tatum by name, no court records for any such trial as is related in the story has ever been found, and the details of the story have also varied including the location where the passing and the trial took place.

The relating at the end of the story about that being how the expression "I'm just Joshing you" came about is also wrong. The use of the term to josh meaning to trick has been traced back to at least the 1830's.

edsiajb · August 26, 2004 5:45AM

I was looking at these at a recent coin show...there were several dealers there that had them ($8 - $10 bucks was the going rate). However, a dealer there did have an authentic racketeer nickel...it did have a reeded edge that had been filed (rather nicely) and the gold plating had worn off years ago. There was still evidence of gold in the reeding and in some areas around the devices. It also had an unusual color to it which I attributed to some gold still remaining in the pores of the nickel. If I remember correctly, it was $200.

1883 Racketeer nickel ?

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