Mail Call! Help please.

bosox · August 17, 2004 1:07PM

I'd like some opinions on the grade of this coin. I just bought it and I like it. I now have a seven day return privilege and am just looking for a few second opinions before I decide for sure whether or not to keep it. Sorry, I got a little light glare on the photo, but I think you should be able to see it okay. Please don't get distracted by the tiny hairline scratches on the holder.

spinaker2000 · August 17, 2004 1:26PM

How about the one across Vics neck?? Is that on the holder?? Otherwise I like it fine.

Not as good as your sig coin, but very nice for such a hard date.

bosox · August 17, 2004 1:39PM

The one on the neck is on the coin. It's a surface mark, not a scratch or dig. Almost like a pencil mark. Shows more on the photo than in the hand, but it is visible. Any thoughts on grade? I'll post what PCGS graded it in a while.

spinaker2000 · August 17, 2004 1:45PM

I never have been good at these, but i'll go with a 63RB.

syraq · August 17, 2004 5:26PM

The obverse looks like 63RB, but the reverse looks brown and is that a discoloration on the bottom third of the surface? (1858 and below)

A fine coin regardless.

cosmicdebris · August 17, 2004 7:05PM

I'd have no problem keeping it.

1jester · August 17, 2004 10:02PM

1858?! Cool! I've never seen one.

sumnom · August 17, 2004 11:02PM

I don't know about grades, but it is quite pleasing. I'd keep it.

bosox · August 18, 2004 10:46AM

Only a couple of takers on guessing the grade.

In my opinion the coin is an extremely well struck penny, in fact noticeably better struck than my sigline coin (graded PCGS MS-64 RB and ICCS MS-63 RB). There are details in the hair ear and wreath that I never knew existed. The fields are also nearly perfect. No (and I mean no) bagmarks and only a few flyspecks. I would call it 50-60% red, which meets the RB criteria. The reverse is darker than the obverse, but still pleasing. Overall I think it has great eye appeal.

All four digits of the date, several letters in the obverse legend, and one of the reverse leafs clearly show signs of doubling. The doubled date may be worth a premium.

The only drawback to this coin I see is the mark across the obverse.

This is the first coin that I have ever paid more than $1,000 (much more actually). PCGS has graded it MS-65 RB. Since it is in the current style production holder, they graded it since February 2002, which means it wasn't graded in the early days when PCGS was more lenient on Canadian grades. This is the only 1858 ever graded higher than MS-64 by PCGS; i.e. PCGS population 1/0. ICCS has graded 3 at MS-65.

The only decision to make is whether the obverse mark detracts enough from the coin to warrant returning it to the seller. I think not, but welcome second opinions. I think if I return it, it may be years before a better one comes on the market.

ajaan · August 18, 2004 10:48AM

ICCS MS64 Red, others MS65 RB

bosox · August 18, 2004 10:50AM

Congrats to Ajaan!

spinaker2000 · August 18, 2004 11:05AM

Ajaan is great at reading, terrible at grading.

ajaan · August 18, 2004 11:22AM

Believe it or not, I didn't read bosox' last post. I graded it by the photo, really I did. Honest.

lordmarcovan · August 18, 2004 11:25AM

What's not to like?

The mark across Vickie's neck is a detraction, but only a minor one. Everything else looks great to me. Too bad the coin doesn't have the luster of your sigline piece.

bosox · August 18, 2004 12:55PM

More luster would be fabulous, but I'm not sure any 1858 MS-65 Reds exists. PCGS has one MS-64 Red (Belzberg's I think). The ICCS population report only shows numerical grades, not comments like RD or RB, so it is hard to tell.

bosox · August 18, 2004 1:06PM

Forgive me. I could not resist showing these two in the same post.

1858 PCGS MS-65 RB

1858 PCGS Speciman 63 BN

ajaan · August 18, 2004 1:14PM

You're forgiven.

spinaker2000 · August 18, 2004 1:33PM

bosox, are you gonna list these in the registry??

bosox · August 18, 2004 1:43PM

I'm working up to the Victorian Cent Circulation Strike registry. I have the following Victorian cent circulation strikes hand, all graded by PCGS:

1858 MS-65 RB
1859 Narrow 9 MS-64 RB
1859 Narrow 9 DP #2 MS-64 RB

I have the following raw coins in for grading at PCGS. I am optimistic that they all will grade at least MS-64, and certain they will all grade at least MS-63.

1884
1890-H
1896 Far 6 Variety
1901

I only have the one speciman cent. Most of the above were purchased in the early 1980's for peanuts compared to today's prices. I stopped collecting for over twenty years because of kids, mortgages, etc. I'm at the point in my collecting life that I would like to put together a memorable date set of Victorian large cents.

bosox · August 19, 2004 4:57PM

Alright guys, I'm obsessing about the obverse mark on this coin. I got four days left on my return period. The coin is damn near perfect except for the one flaw. Been looking at it for days and that's all I can find. I paid full MS-65 money for it ($5K), but it's hard date and, after all, I'm working on a date set. BTW I've never paid that much for a coin before.

The mark even at close range (4X) looks superficial but visible. After a very close look (9X), I start to think it actually constitutes a tiny scratch on the lower end (along a section across the neck of the bust). I readily admit it's possible I'm seeing demons where there are none.

I asked a Canadian dealer acqaintance of mine to comment on the coin based on the photo shown above. His response was that they don't come any better and that I might wait ten years to find another one.

Still, so close to perfection and ONE DAMN LINE ON THE COIN, ACROSS THE BUST NO LESS.

I'm starting a poll:

a. Rob is obsessing unnecessarily about a premo coin and should chill and keep the mother.

b. MS-65 means perfect, even in a 152 year coin with a mintage of 421,000, so PCGS screwed up and Rob should send it back to the nasty dealer.

Please respond. The suspense is killing me.

bosox · August 19, 2004 5:02PM

So flustered I can't even subtract. The coin is 146 years old.

syraq · August 19, 2004 5:13PM

Vote for the poll: b

Your dealer friend is probably right, and the coin looks almost perfect . However, if it's the first such big purchase, I believe it should be a coin with the eye appeal of your sigline and one you'll immediately fall in love with. No buts and doubts, regardless of dates. I'm sure I'm completely wrong, it's in my nature.

ajaan · August 19, 2004 9:36PM

Touch call from just an image. It really depends on how the mark looks in person. Large photos tend to make minor distractions looks much worse. The bottom lone as I see it is if you have any doubt on a $5K coin, return it. To keep it you probably will have misgivings in the future. Of course, that is just my opinion.

Mail Call! Help please.

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