I posted before I read the remaining posts. For my error in not reading the great history of this "coin", I will fess up and admit I own a 1796 15 stars in PCGS 58.
The coin was purchased at the Atlanta ANA as a 55, later upgraded to 58. That sale by Heritage also produced a 1797 in XF 45 and both were purchased reasonably.( I got only the 1796).
If someone can go to the Auction records of Heritage and get the image onto this site, that would be helpful. The coin is toned and medium dark. But well struck, and tiliting will show the still lustrous surfaces.
The 1796 and 1797 halves are the hottest coins today, and have been for the last year. I can still remember Jay Parrino putting in Auction in 1998 at the Portland ANA 2 examples that didn't sell, with the hammer on the 1796 16 stars in NGC 64 coming down at $102,500, and the 1797 in PCGS 63 at $75,000. The 1797 would sell today for over $200,000,( see JUNG auction results from last month ) with the 1796 16 stars approaching $500,000.
Times were tough in 1998. Large coins that would go to the moon today, went to the book. The 1892-S Morgan dollar in PCGS 66 brough$70,000 hammer, and the 1800 dotted date early dollar in NGC 66 $80,000. The money was elsewhere then perhaps still in the roaring stock market.
Researchers believe that all half-dollars minted during 1796 were actually dated 1795. The thought then is that all half dollars dated 1796 were minted in 1797 or later, and that is why the mint did not keep separate records of how many 1796-dated vs. 1797-dated half dollars were produced.
Cardinal,
Can you tell us more about the first part of your comment - that 1795-dated halves were minted in 1796? These would be the 3918 pieces generally attributed as 1796/1797 coins?
I hadn't heard this particular theory before... If it's true, I betcha I know which 1795 Overton variety this would have been...!
Here is a couple of more cents worth on this post. First let me say I think that Cardinal’s story, and bragging rights to said story, is worth every penny of what he paid for that coin.
Second let me say that I think the prices of both the 1796 and the 1797 in low grades are truly reaching moon money while other early rare coins in that series have not enjoyed the same appreciation, and appear to me to be under valued. I have included in the below list of rare issues the 1801 and 1802 even though they are LE. Also in my opinion any of these early types that have very high numbers of coins in VG to VF should be looked at with squinted eyes, since these are the coins most likely to be resubmitted multiple times to multiple companies. You could most likely cut the PCGS and NGC numbers in half on the 1794.
It seems to me that any collectors that collect in this area should immediately, if not sooner, purchase the 1794, 1801, and 1802 if these are not in their collections. It appears there may be many of the 1797 and 1796 coins available in “bodybag” condition as we seem to be seeing many of these comeing out now with the high prices.
PCGS has the following on their pop report,
1794 total of 244 with 230 in VG to VF and 1 in MS
BTW, could the adjustment marks have been of differing sharpness due to striking pressure or planchet thickness? Or might the counterfeit die have worn through use, leading to the same results? If so, both coins could be fake, in which case the identical alloys would make perfect sense.
MrEureka - Interesting comment! If the adjustment marks were (raised lines) on the counterfeit die, it makes sense that they would quickly degrade with each strike.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Your insight into the rare early halves is right on. The 1794 in any grade above AU 50 is nigh impossible, coming to auction about once a year. The 1801 in AU 50 and above(but not much above) is grabbed up immediately, and at multiples of sheet pricing. The 1802, tho not quite as scarce as the other 2, is always in demand.
Add the 1803 small 3, and you have a quartet of scarce coins that are rivaled only by the 1796 16 stars. The 1796 and 1797 have taken off so mightily, and may begin to be "high-priced". The others will do so and maybe the sheets will begin to catch up.
Being a gold bug, where do you have the time to know so much about the early halves?
The 1801 and 1802 halves have been rising sharply in recent months. They are also getting pretty hard to find, and I've been unable to locate a pleasing one that fits my budget for my collection.
I don't think they are currently undervalued now, but that might have been the case a year or two ago. With mintages that fall below the famed 1815/2 half and high grade examples almost unheard of, they really are rare coins in their own right.
One of the nicest original Xf 1797 Halves belonged to a board member here (in fact he posted in this thread) about 2yrs ago. I wanted to buy the coin so bad, but just was not funded at the time to purchase it (my price was 78k) It resided in a PCGS-40 holder and looked 45 IMO. At the same show, it was sold to another dealer at 82k , who then consigned it to an auction where it brought a little over 100k within 3 months. Since then this coin has been upgraded to a PCGS-45 and sold twice thru two national large dealers one who specializes in Halves who then consigned it to an auction recently where it fetched over 145k.
For a 45, I was hoping to see some less grey and maybe more luster, some more defined hair detail and sharper obverse stars. For the reverse, I would have expected more defined detail on the leaves and the perpendicular scratch at 12 o'clock distracts me slightly.
I think there is a bit of confusion here, as I am not referring to the coin posted, this coin looks nice, but only 20-25ish, this coin went to an undisclosed bidder I am referring too?
<< <i>I think there is a bit of confusion here, as I am not referring to the coin posted, this coin looks nice, but only 20-25ish, this coin went to an undisclosed bidder I am referring too?
jim >>
You're right, and right again. PCGS said VF25; I'd say it's average for the grade. It's just one of those cases where a VF25 is "good enough" for me. Of course, if I hit the lottery. . .
I am not kidding,
G99G I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart NOT.
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
I settled for a repaired one after spending almost 50 years trying to locate a Holed coin before it was repaired. I have still never seen a genuine Holed Type 2 Half Dollar. Anybody?
Comments
Cardinal's 2nd post on page 2 is particularly interesting.
better yet, let's see your
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Thanks to cardinal's for his posts!
Cardinal do you know who in PCGS looked over that coin?
Perhaps David Hall can add some commentary?
I'm guessing 64, finest known 15 stars, Norweb
I posted before I read the remaining posts. For my error in not reading the great history of this "coin", I will fess up and admit I own a 1796 15 stars in PCGS 58.
The coin was purchased at the Atlanta ANA as a 55, later upgraded to 58. That sale by Heritage also produced a 1797 in XF 45 and both were purchased reasonably.( I got only the 1796).
If someone can go to the Auction records of Heritage and get the image onto this site, that would be helpful. The coin is toned and medium dark. But well struck, and tiliting will show the still lustrous surfaces.
The 1796 and 1797 halves are the hottest coins today, and have been for the last year. I can still remember Jay Parrino putting in Auction in 1998 at the Portland ANA 2 examples that didn't sell, with the hammer on the 1796 16 stars in NGC 64 coming down at $102,500, and the 1797 in PCGS 63 at $75,000. The 1797 would sell today for over $200,000,( see JUNG auction results from last month ) with the 1796 16 stars approaching $500,000.
Times were tough in 1998. Large coins that would go to the moon today, went to the book. The 1892-S Morgan dollar in PCGS 66 brough$70,000 hammer, and the 1800 dotted date early dollar in NGC 66 $80,000. The money was elsewhere then perhaps still in the roaring stock market.
Ask and sometimes ye shall receive
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
NGC MS64 1796 16 stars
Pardon the link for a coin actively for sale, but it sounds like it's the coin mentioned so I risk the ire of the forum......
Thanks for the excellent post.
Here is another writeup on the same coin:
Jesse Patrick's article
Cardinal,
Can you tell us more about the first part of your comment - that 1795-dated halves were minted in 1796? These would be the 3918 pieces generally attributed as 1796/1797 coins?
I hadn't heard this particular theory before... If it's true, I betcha I know which 1795 Overton variety this would have been...!
Mine is on memo to ernie.
Second let me say that I think the prices of both the 1796 and the 1797 in low grades are truly reaching moon money while other early rare coins in that series have not enjoyed the same appreciation, and appear to me to be under valued. I have included in the below list of rare issues the 1801 and 1802 even though they are LE.
Also in my opinion any of these early types that have very high numbers of coins in VG to VF should be looked at with squinted eyes, since these are the coins most likely to be resubmitted multiple times to multiple companies. You could most likely cut the PCGS and NGC numbers in half on the 1794.
It seems to me that any collectors that collect in this area should immediately, if not sooner, purchase the 1794, 1801, and 1802 if these are not in their collections. It appears there may be many of the 1797 and 1796 coins available in “bodybag” condition as we seem to be seeing many of these comeing out now with the high prices.
PCGS has the following on their pop report,
1794 total of 244 with 230 in VG to VF and 1 in MS
1796 total of 42 with 4 in MS
1797 total of 67 with 2 in MS
1801 LE total of 126 with 0 in MS
1802 LE total of 94 with 2 in MS
NGC POP
1794 total of 99 with 4 in MS
1796 total of 37 with 13 in MS
1797 total of 41 with 6 in MS
1801 LE total of 67 with 4 in MS
1802 LE total of 52 with 1 in MS
MrEureka - Interesting comment!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Your insight into the rare early halves is right on. The 1794 in any grade above AU 50 is nigh impossible, coming to auction about once a year. The 1801 in AU 50 and above(but not much above) is grabbed up immediately, and at multiples of sheet pricing. The 1802, tho not quite as scarce as the other 2, is always in demand.
Add the 1803 small 3, and you have a quartet of scarce coins that are rivaled only by the 1796 16 stars. The 1796 and 1797 have taken off so mightily, and may begin to be "high-priced". The others will do so and maybe the sheets will begin to catch up.
Being a gold bug, where do you have the time to know so much about the early halves?
Why Dale, Me a gold bug? I think you have me confused with Roadrunner, Ha Ha
I do like my last gold purchase for my type set this past week, Pretty cute HuH?
I don't think they are currently undervalued now, but that might have been the case a year or two ago. With mintages that fall below the famed 1815/2 half and high grade examples almost unheard of, they really are rare coins in their own right.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>there's another VF on ebay right now for $63,000, and me with a birthday coming up
Dang. Another $22,000 and it will catch up to the vacation/future retirement house we just bought in the Texas Hill Country on Saturday.
I wonder how long it will be before that coin is worth MORE than that house.
It's not one of my highest graded coins (though it is one of my best), but it's good enough for a 1797 half! What grade do you think it is?
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
I'm going to say EF-40, nice crust.
It looks better than some 35's I've seen, but not quite to a 45.
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
For the reverse, I would have expected more defined detail on the leaves and the perpendicular scratch at 12 o'clock distracts me slightly.
Edited for spelling
jim
<< <i>I think there is a bit of confusion here, as I am not referring to the coin posted, this coin looks nice, but only 20-25ish, this coin went to an undisclosed bidder I am referring too?
jim >>
You're right, and right again. PCGS said VF25; I'd say it's average for the grade. It's just one of those cases where a VF25 is "good enough" for me. Of course, if I hit the lottery. . .
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
<< <i>No chance of my getting a genuine coin any time soon >>
same here so ,I got this one
the_northern_trading_company
ace@airadv.net
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry