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My first post and questions...
edsiajb
Posts: 98
OK...I have been a light (very light) collector for many years. I recently submitted a 1883 N/C nickel for grading and I have a question.
Background first: I purchased this coin 26 years ago when I was 12 years old. Although most of my certified coins are PCGS, I sent it to SEGS because: I was at a coin show and Larry was there accepting coins which made it very convenient, the coin is sentimental to me and I will never sell it, the coin is prooflike and I wanted that designation.
The coin came back graded MS63/PL "light obv cleaning". I can't tell that it has been cleaned and I have viewed it extensively with a high-end 10x hastings loupe. There are obvious die polish marks on the obv and rev but I cannot see anything that would be construed as cleaning. A local dealer looked at the coin for me a while back and said its is a "solid MS63" and he commented on the die polish marks.
So my (first ever here) question:
What do I look for to determine if a coin has been cleaned (other than the obvious)? Is there some sort of special way to determine this (special lighting, etc)? I obviously don't have vast experience but I would like to know before my next purchase.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Background first: I purchased this coin 26 years ago when I was 12 years old. Although most of my certified coins are PCGS, I sent it to SEGS because: I was at a coin show and Larry was there accepting coins which made it very convenient, the coin is sentimental to me and I will never sell it, the coin is prooflike and I wanted that designation.
The coin came back graded MS63/PL "light obv cleaning". I can't tell that it has been cleaned and I have viewed it extensively with a high-end 10x hastings loupe. There are obvious die polish marks on the obv and rev but I cannot see anything that would be construed as cleaning. A local dealer looked at the coin for me a while back and said its is a "solid MS63" and he commented on the die polish marks.
So my (first ever here) question:
What do I look for to determine if a coin has been cleaned (other than the obvious)? Is there some sort of special way to determine this (special lighting, etc)? I obviously don't have vast experience but I would like to know before my next purchase.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
0
Comments
Die polish marks are raised on the coin (convex) actual cleaning marks dig into the coin (concave. Typically cleaning marks are rotational while die polishing are straight.
Russ, NCNE
Est value for a 63 is 45.00.
Hope this helps.
An excellent first question. When it comes to recognizing cleaning, there really is no good substitute for looking at a lot of coins and closely examining those that look "different". That said, there are several possible clues to a potential cleaning. First, cleaning usually changes the way the light reflects off of a coin and thus the luster will appear different. Second, hairlines are frequently a byproduct of cleaning. Finally, some methods of clean with render easily accessable areas of the coin "clean" while the hard to get to areas are "dirty". On copper, cleaning typically alters the color (frequently changes to pinkish).
WH
If its not your coin..........its die polish.........if the dealer wants to sell it.............its die polish.
Get my drift. "Reputable dealer" is the key here.
Dont send it in again, unless you have the cash to blow on it......buy some more coins and learn.......then make your own decision.
I would use a higher power than 10X to determine hairlines from cleaning vs die polish.
Sometimes the only way I can see an old cleaning is to tip the coin and rotate it under my flourescent desk light. Sometimes you have to tip it just right to see a very light wipe or rub on the coin.
Any thought by some of you.
<< <i>Just wondering if by "light obv cleaning". They could be referring to a dip of some sort? Not a rub......
Any thought by some of you. >>
I wondered the same thing...
<< <i>Just wondering if by "light obv cleaning". They could be referring to a dip of some sort? Not a rub...... >>
No dipping is pretty accepted these days so I suspect the luster is impaired. Often times people that are unfamiliar with luster confuse it with bright and shiney. I don't know how many coin dealers I have met that don't know there is a difference between the two. Larry Briggs has really impressed me with his quickness to detect faults in a coin at a quick glance. I once showed him a mercuy that was MS67 except for 3-4 super light slide marks that I could only see if I really looked hard and he spotted them in about half a second flat. mike
I'd crack that coin out of that holder; the "obv cleaning" designation would bug me.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I will try to get a photo or scan of both coins posted so everyone can guess which one is the proof and which one is proof-like.
<< <i>Welcome to the boards. I don't want get your hopes up too much, but it wouldn't shock me if one of SEGS's weaker graders had somehow mistaken die polish marks for hairlines. It could have happened, IMO. >>
I wondered the same thing...
<< <i>Proof and prooflike are very different. Typically the rims are squared off and the strike far more superb on a proof. >>
OK...after careful comparison under 10x magnification: The p/l is the sharper strike on the bust and the proof has a slightly better rim. The fields on the p/l are slightly more mirrored than the proof. The reverses look almost identical (other than one having "cents" and the other not).
you could always crack it out of the slab and slab it your self with the coinworld slabs, make your own labels too.
Might as well, everybody else is!!
******
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Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
-YN Currently Collecting & Researching Colonial World Coins, Especially Spanish Coins, With a Great Interest in WWII Militaria.
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