Are you tired of fraud? How much have you lost?

67standup · July 12, 2004 9:11AM

There's been many posts regarding scams lately (I'm the author of a few.) For those who care to share, how much are your top losses due to fraud, scams, etc. This includes transactions in which the seller attempted to defraud, but made good after a long delay.

Up until this year, my only bad Ebay transaction was $6 back in 1997
In regard to non-Ebay, there’s that Yaz Airborne transaction that I’ve detailed ad nauseum
Currently, I have a pending $975 loss that is detailed on a recent post.

Although we must be cautious when naming names, kudos to those who’ve had the bawls to warn others.

JonB · July 12, 2004 9:28AM

As I just stated in another thread, I got scammed for $1,800 earlier this year on ebay. That was about 3 months ago now, my district attorney will be issuing an arrest warrant for him in the next month. Granted $1800 is a lot, but its been so long now I don't give a flip about the money, I just want to see that guy behind bars for a while. I have him on the usual, plus Federal Mail Fraud charges... that can carry quite a hefty sentence.

magellan · July 12, 2004 9:37AM

$1100 less eBay's "fraud protection" which was $400. Manufactured wax packs from a seller who got nailed by FBI & state of Maryland. This was in 2002. Hope your guy rots in jail Jon.

Dave

67standup · July 12, 2004 10:04AM

Jon,

I can feel your pain as I read your reply (if not yours, then it's mine as I think of my current scenario.) I'm in the process of taking a number of steps, but am generously providing the seller a few more days. What are the steps to filing federal mail fraud charges? Since my esteemed seller lives in Canada, I've involved the RCMP, and they've been very cooperative. How did you get a district attorney involved, was this as a result of filing the Mail Fraud charges? You can PM if you prefer, or not at all if this conjures up too many bad memories.

For $975, I have entertainment for weeks, months and years to come. With persistence, one can use the resources available to possibly get a refund, cause a sever blow or destroy the thief's livelihood, and justifiably involve criminal prosecution. And those are only normal retribution tactics.

I've already inquired into flights and lodging near the seller’s small hometown, for purposes of site seeing of course.

Jon, as you said, it's not even about the money anymore.

roastedcat · July 12, 2004 10:16AM

I've been scammed a few times (I never learn)

I've bought a 1933 Goudey Ruth for $322. from a guy who was new on Ebay, didn't have a photo of the card but said it belonged to his grandfather and assured me to was real in the discription, at the time Ebay was fairly new, I believe it was 1996 the card turned out to be a dover reprint and the guy wouldn't refund my money, and he canceled his account. (yep I got screwed out of $322. and $5.00 shipping)

About 4 years ago I purchased a 1910 Sporting life Honus Wagner for $550. + $20. nextday shipping card never recieved for 6 weeks, since I had a business trip in New York and the guy was located in New Jersey, I figure I would pay the guy a visit, it turned out to be a 15 year old kid selling off one of his fathers cards on ebay and he thought he wouldn't get caught until I payed him a visit. I let them know I was pressing charges for fraud, and his parents ended up finally giving me the card and my $20. shipping fee back. (the thing I will always remember is the look/shock of seeing the kids face when his dad grabbed a metal fireplace poker and told the kid to go to his room.) They appoligies and said it will never happen again. I left it at that.

I purchased an Autographed Baseball signed by Babe Ruth and Jimmy Foxx on ebay, for $2200. the guy scammed me, and never sent me a ball, never gave me my refund. I tracked him down and filed a law suit on him for theft and damages, It turned out the guy never owned the ball, he just stoled a picture from a magazine and scanned it. He had like 100 positives and no negatives but decided to comit a scam figuering it's only 1 negative feedback. I sued him in March 2002 and won. I recieved $3400 back, refund plus court fees.

I purchased another Autographed Mel Ott baseball on ebay $1500. The guy never sent ball, took my money. But stupid enough to give me phone number and home address, I called him everyday, and I sent a letter to him everyday asking wheres my ball, fed up with being dupes out of $1500. I secretly filed a lawsuit against him in October 2002, I bet he was surprised when somebody gave him a letter with a court summon to appear in court. Since I'm in California, and he's in Boston, he'd have to fly to California to show up in court. With the cost of airfare and a place to stay. He figured it would cost him more and sent me a letter of appoligy, and shipped the PSA/DNA certified baseball to me, and $500. to drop the charges which I did, but I wanted $700. which he sent to me Fed EX the next day.

In 2003 I purchased an autographed Hack Wilson baseball on ebay, again I was duped by another seller this time for $750. The guy kept telling me the ball was shipped, and gave me a bogus tracking number which didn't work. He said I should have bought insurance, but on his listing it said insurance will be paid by the seller. 3 weeks went by, I was getting the same run around again. He was also in California, so I just filed at my local court house, cost me $50. thats fine. About a week or so, the ball shows up in the mail, with the post date marked on two days ago. he doesn't respond to my emails, so thats fine. To this day, I still haven't dropped the charges, he never asked me too. Won't he be surprised when he trys and finds a job and can't get the job and finds out he has a criminal record still pending on him. It will be up to him to track me down to get the court order dropped.

(I never learn, but I get even)

Jery

grilloj39 · July 12, 2004 10:21AM

I've lost a about two to three hundred over the past two years on buying trimmed or altered cards...I've never lost any money for cards I didn't receive. I've always threatened the seller with "holy hell" if they didn't refund my money for cards they didn't have. That's happened to me about once or twice. Otherwise, e-bay is A-OK, okie-dokey with me.

wlf3 · July 12, 2004 10:21AM

I got a good one.... i received 2 "bank checks" totalling $37,500 2 years ago and deposited them and UPSed the goods.... 3 days later: the bank checks were forgeries! The buyer discontinued communications (of course), so I am out $37,500 in cash and about $23,000 in cost of goods ($60k loss). Of course he was reported to the police, FBI, and postal inspectors....to no avail. The police in his town said they had no "proof" a crime was committed and dropped it, PO did nothing, and the FBI says they've been investigating him for the prior 5 years and NOW tells me and too tells me there is virtually 0 chance of seeing anything in the future.

Can anyone beat that? It's horrible what some people will risk and do for a $buck.

magellan · July 12, 2004 10:27AM

I would not want to beat that wlf3......man that really stinks. I think I'd hire the nastiest lawyer I could find to sue him.

roastedcat · July 12, 2004 10:33AM

wlf3-

With that much money you need to find yourself a good mercenary!

mudflap02 · July 12, 2004 10:38AM

When I first got into graded cards, I bought a 1971 Topps Ryan in a PSG Holder for around 80 bucks. I got the card, and it turns out that the PSG holder was a screwdown with a label the guy printed off on his computer. Needless to say, card is butchered. Still can't get in touch with the guy. I figure if it took $80 to learn the lesson, it was worth it, and it had made me pretty wary and able to pick out scams from a mile away.

ranch · July 12, 2004 10:50AM

That's the problem with you rich Americans...you guys have no respect for money...that's why you guys go through hell all the time! Let me tell you what a cheap Canadian I am! I once purchased a bunch of 1951 Parkhurst hockey cards for around $150 from this French dude located in Montreal, and it took him damn 8 weeks to ship out my cards...and he only did that because I threatened to drive down to Montreal with a bunch of my friends and give him a good a** whipping...I guess that scared him...

You've got to be rough in this world, folks.

hench1 · July 12, 2004 10:57AM

roasted, I got burned on an "insurance" scam as well. I won a 57 Topps PSA 8 Bobby Thomson for about $60 from Brian C. Daniels, who listed the item with "no insurance offered". I always insure an item if it's over $20, but figured that the seller either included it with his shipping fee or else self-insured because he didn't want to bother with standing in line at the post office. The item arrived with the holder broken in two (very poor packaging). I emailed him immediately notifying him of the damage and that I was returning the card for a refund. After returning the card, Daniels kept the card and my money. Daniels offered me a chance to conspire with him to commit mail fraud by having him resend the item, WITH insurance this time, and for me to turn it in as a claim. I refused and he kept both my money and my card. He had zero negative feedbacks with lots of positives, so when I reported it to ebay, they did nothing.

The reason that I am willing to name Brian C. Daniels as the crook who stole my money is that I saved the emails from him offering to conspire to commit mail fraud.

He is the only person to rip me off on ebay in the 5 or 6 years I've been there.

Virtualizard · July 12, 2004 11:01AM

<< ...The reason that I am willing to name Brian C. Daniels as the crook who stole my money is that I saved the emails from him offering to conspire to commit mail fraud.

He is the only person to rip me off on ebay in the 5 or 6 years I've been there. >>

Uh oh! This could get ugly. He's a member of this forum. Just wanted to let you know.

JEB.

JonB · July 12, 2004 11:09AM

67standup... I filed a case with the IFCC (I think thats what it is called) its some sort of federal agency kinda connected with the FBI I think. Still not totally sure what they are but it stands for Internet Fraud Complaint Center (I think) Anyways, they refered my case to the local law enforcement in my home town and in his home town. A couple weeks after I filed the report with them, an assistant district attorney in my county emailed me. I called her back the next day, she was probably the nicest person thats paid by a city/government that I have ever talked to, we must have talked for 30 or 45 minutes. Basically the DA's office sends the guy 3 letters (one a month for three months) if he hasn't refunded all of my money by 30 days after the last letter was sent out... ARREST WARRANT!!!

Honestly I can't tell you the exact date, but I think they just sent out the third letter (they received no response what-so-ever from the first two letters). I still have copies of all of the emails between the seller and I, as well as the cashiers check receipt, and the receipt for the USPS overnight registered and insured envelope I sent him the check in.

In one of the emails he even admitted that he didn't have the product, and he was waiting for his supplier to deliver it to him. That was the last email I received from him.

I think with all of that evidence the DA should have a slam dunk case. (and if not, what roastedcat said really does sound like a good idea)

Soooo.... anyone live near St Paul, MN??? LOL

(if only I didn't live so far away in TX)

joedel · July 12, 2004 11:10AM

Wlf1,

Hire roastedcat to try and get your money back, and offer him a percentage of the returned amount. Sounds like he has had great experience in getting some results from the authorities.

koby · July 12, 2004 11:14AM

wlf3

That is horrible. The local police said there is "no proof"? Those crooks used forged bank checks. For a very large amount of money no less. I am sure you followed up with all the branches of law enforcement possible, but I can't believe the local police said there is "no proof." Sorry you lost so much money.

koby

JonB · July 12, 2004 11:25AM

roastedcat... how does 50% collectors fee sound? lol

gregm13 · July 12, 2004 11:28AM

Hmmm...great thread. I have been burned 3 times

Jimmy Parker last August - I pre-bought a case of 2003 Bowman Chrome (FB) for $810 and at the time this guy had a 200+ rating w/ no negatives. He skipped town w/ my money and at least 12 other people that I could document. We tracked him to Peoria and then West Virginia and he was eventually arrested from what I understand. I tried contact the sheriff's office (can't remember which one now) for send my "packet" of information but my multiple calls were never returned.

CCCSportscards about two years ago. I bought a lot of Mantles, Williams and a T-206 from this clown and several ended up being trimmed. I spent the better part of a year but decided it wasn't worth the $300 or so I was out. A complete scumbag.

Last December I bought a Namath rc from canadian_b-boy and returned for a refund because the card was severely water damaged. I returned the card and never received a refund. I have a case hopefully pending in Winnipeg where this virus lives.

Personally, I've really begun to hate E-Bay. E-Bay does nothing, Paypal does nothing and the police could care less. I tried calling the state's attorney, my police, the thieves' police all to no avail. I received chargebacks on the 2003 fb case and the Namath rc so I'm only out several hundered between the three incidents.

Regards,

Greg M.

Buccaneer · July 12, 2004 11:36AM

Only time I got frauded was the first and only time I bought an opened pack on eBay. It was from that pack manufacturer in Virginia. May he rot in hell.

roastedcat · July 12, 2004 11:59AM

hmmm.

JonB · July 12, 2004 12:11PM

Jery,

My 50% offer still stands, lol

roastedcat · July 12, 2004 12:40PM

Jon are you serious?

JonB · July 12, 2004 12:49PM

If my DA can't get my $1800 back for me, i'm open to just about anything, including giving out a 50% collectors fee... I should know in a few months.

Buccaneer · July 12, 2004 12:57PM

<< 
Watch out for sellers who have less than 20 feedbacks, and check to see what they have been buying and selling in the pass.
Jery >>

That's what has bothered me a little. I have quite a few stuff to sell (unopened packs, 70s sets, etc.) but with only about 20 unique feedbacks and nothing as a seller yet, I just haven't taken the time to sell anything on eBay. I rarely buy cards on eBay these days, prefering to go with online dealers. Sounds like any serious collectors (esp. those here) would not bid because of my lack of presence on eBay.

WinPitcher · July 12, 2004 1:02PM

good stuff always sells....u just may not get the price the big boys get. case in point i see mars attacks goin for crazy money, yet when i try to sell my dupes i cant get ..well i think u know what im getting at.....

1967topps · July 12, 2004 1:22PM

damn wlf...that's pretty bad, worst I've had is

-seller that is often accused of opening packs, pulling stars, putting correct series commons in
their place, and re-sealing (sometimes even submitting to GAI). Two multi-hundred dollar
auctions and he probably didn't think people would be opening packs, but I am working
on a high end set from that year so open anything I can get. There were certain suspicious
things about the cards, gum stains on cards that didn't touch the gum, etc, but hey I got a family, I don't want to give out too much info to this guy in case he is a wacko and wants to leave the Midwest to come find me, even though MANY have complained, some even say what he is in his ebay feedback..but he's
one of these sellers like the west coast trading warehouse that has so many transactions that
the overall feedback is still in the high 90% range

-seller that grossly over-rated some cards, and leaves feedback like "customer is a real idiot"
and in his feedback you see it over and over, everyone who complains about 'bent worn cards
are now EX' is called the idiot, etc. This guy was NARU for a while. Now his "about me" says
"my son was selling cards but now I am doing this" and the dad of the fruitcake is selling
purses and ladies shoes, but the feedback to neutrals and negatives is as immature as ever.

Yeah, i don't think anyone wants to play "Can You Top This" with you. Thanks for sharing though.

1967topps · July 12, 2004 1:25PM

well your "Friend" is still around

(edited to say try using google yourself to look up the name on your s**T list)

dont know the guy, just tried my luck in google - odds are its the same guy

1967topps · July 12, 2004 1:28PM

Gregm13, what about the Better Business Bureau? Seems like another option anyway, even if
perhaps an old-time one??

NickM · July 12, 2004 2:06PM

I've never been burned for a large amount, but I have lots of money order receipts for small amounts (usually from sellers who won't take personal checks or PayPal) where the card never came back and it would cost me more to put a trace on it than I spent in the first place.

I've also gotten the vaunted "PayPal has determined the seller is at fault, but there is no money in the seller's account." Amazingly enough, that seller continues to be registered and sell items through PayPal. Thankfully I was only taken for $9.25.

The worst I've had when I got merchandise was getting retail boxes when the auction listing and picture were both clear that it was hobby boxes.

Nick

ctsoxfan · July 12, 2004 2:59PM

I recently bought a raw 70's baseball set advertised as NM/MT, mostly Mint...but, the set I received smelled like someones musty basement, and contained many cards with creases in them, and ink on the backs. This, after waiting a few weeks for shipment, though I paid the same day the auction closed. This, more than outright fraud, seems like an even more common occurance lately...

BugOnTheRug · July 12, 2004 3:44PM

Wow, considering most here I'm pretty fortunate. I'm certainly not a big spender, as the most I've paid for a card is about $425 and the most I've paid for sets has been about $1,700.

So far all is fine and dandy, with the exception of awhile back I paid $125 for a wax box of 84D's from Boyer Endeavors that I'm pretty sure was tampered with (I wanted the commons anyway so it wasn't too bad, but bad enough).

Considering all, I feel pretty good about my transactions. However, a bigger problem for me is staying focused on what I want to collect: I sometimes wander and spend good coin on things in the end I'd just a soon not purchased. Sometimes I get my money back - sometimes I don't............

BOTR

jrdolan · July 12, 2004 3:55PM

Some of you have read this before... Bought a '65 Mantle PSA 8 for $950. Received handful of worthless 2003 commons. Delivery confirmation was used, so PayPal refused to charge back. Said it was a dispute over "quality of goods." eBay sent a form letter acknowledging my fraud complaint, but never another word. Thanks to one of his other victims, he was tracked down and at least some of us received money back from punk's father. Dad said son ran the scam for local scummy adult who taught him about PayPal's policies, etc. I believe it. Half a dozen or more people were scammed on one night, some for much more than I was. We emailed everyone with info. on punk and father, some didn't respond so don't know if they were able to collect.

mudflap02 · July 12, 2004 5:14PM

anybody here talking about overtimecards? that guy sucks real bad in VA.

gregm13 · July 12, 2004 9:32PM

1967 Topps - That's probably the one source I didn't try. I'm to the point anymore that I don't give a sh*t.

Regards,

Greg M.

rw2win · July 12, 2004 11:02PM

30 bucks, I guess I'm lucky.

RobE · July 13, 2004 3:02AM

wlf 3 you talk too calmly about your loss.If that happened to me I would be living under a bridge if I had to eat it.Someone would be dead and I would be in jail if that happened.

I would never do a transaction over 1000 with checks or unconfirmed PP addresses unless I knew the buyer or seller and they had a solid rep and I knew them from around here.

Guess,I've been very fortunate to only lose literally pennies when Ebay was letting people do the free auctions to donate for 911.I think I got burned for $3.At least the seller didn't get my donation.

67standup · July 13, 2004 3:15AM

<< wlf 3 you talk too calmly about your loss.If that happened to me I would be living under a bridge if I had to eat it.Someone would be dead and I would be in jail if that happened. >>

Although it's difficult, it's important to not let the anger of being ripped off consume you, if so, the thief wins twice. Once I decided to mentally write-off the $975, I became more creative in trying to get it back. Now, I have an extensive action plan ready to go. My loser provided a tracking number this morning, but he's done this before. So if the tracking number doesn't register by tomorrow, we go to Plan B. Then there's the nasty Plan C, and of course Plan D which allows me to fly on Air Canada for the first time.

There's a difference between persistent, aggressive, and methodical hardcore tactics and uncontrolled, unplanned revenge. My guy will pay, either monetarily or via criminal prosecution. Unless he’s smart, $975 has provided me entertainment for a long time to come.

onlychild · July 13, 2004 3:34AM

Knock on wood...not a single problem in over 6 years dealing on eBay. I am very careful and only deal with high + feedback and read as far back as possible. Been lucky I guess.

Kevin

hench1 · July 15, 2004 2:04AM

<< 

<< ...The reason that I am willing to name Brian C. Daniels as the crook who stole my money is that I saved the emails from him offering to conspire to commit mail fraud.

He is the only person to rip me off on ebay in the 5 or 6 years I've been there. >>

Uh oh! This could get ugly. He's a member of this forum. Just wanted to let you know.

JEB. >>

Virtualizard, thanks, but I alread knew that Daniels was a member of this forum. As you have noticed, there has been no reply on his part to what I wrote, because HE KNOWS THAT IT'S TRUE. He also knows I saved the emails proving everything I wrote here. Brian C. Daniels ripped me off and tried to get me to commit mail fraud and those are FACTS. I would love for him to challenge me on it and I will be happy to produce the emails verifying what I have posted.

Jerry

Buccaneer · July 15, 2004 3:54AM

<< anybody here talking about overtimecards? that guy sucks real bad in VA. >>

That was the guy I mentioned earlier.

jason045 · July 15, 2004 12:12PM

Nearly a year ago I paid $660 for what I though was a nice looking '59 Topps Mantle. I never got the card and the seller gave me excuse after excuse why I hadn't gotten the card. He then tells me he's filing the insurance claim and then he disappears. His email, phone #, etc are no longer valid. Then all of a sudden about a month ago this guy shows up on ebay selling a Bowman Chrome Pujols Auto RC with no scan. I made up a fake ID and won the card for a little over $900 so I could get this guys contact info. Once I confront him through email he says he did nothing wrong and refuses to comment further. The next day I contacted the underbidder warning him about this guy cause I figured he may offer it to him since I wouldn't be paying. The guy tells me he did offer it to him and he has already sent him a money order. He says he is going to try to cancel it. I emailed him a couple of days later asking if he was successful in cancelling the money order. He didn't reply for about a week and a half. Then today I got an email from him. He told me the scumbag gave him a tracking number that checked out with the post office so he didn't cancel the money order. Today it comes in and its just 2 pieces of cardboard taped together in a bubble mailer. What an a$$hole! If anyone would like to collect my $660 from this scumbag I would gladly give them half. His name is Terry Wilcox and he lives in Lubbock, Texas. His ebay user ID is funtimes2003. BTW- As soon as I got this guys new contact info I reported it to the IFCC but have yet to hear anything else.

koby · July 15, 2004 1:05PM

<< Daniels offered me a chance to conspire with him to commit mail fraud by having him resend the item, WITH insurance this time, and for me to turn it in as a claim. >>

Do not do this. You can get in serious trouble.

Aknot · July 15, 2004 1:06PM

<< 

<< anybody here talking about overtimecards? that guy sucks real bad in VA. >>

That was the guy I mentioned earlier. >>

Where in Virginia?

Also I have (knock on wood) only been ripped off here on the CU boards for bout $35.

NickM · July 15, 2004 1:38PM

I'm dealing right now with an ebay seller who provided the following information to PayPal:

The seller has provided the following information in response to your
complaint, indicating that the item was shipped.

Tracking Company: Other
Tracking Number: 000000000

If they accept this, heads will roll.

Luckily, the amount is only $6.51.

Nick

UnAmuzd1 · July 15, 2004 1:52PM

I'm small potatoes. I lost $23 or so to a guy who sold me a 59 "Aaron Clubs World Series Homer" and then disappeared off the face of the earth. 2 months later, I negged him, but it was already past when ebay or paypal would do a darned thing about it, and I learned that my bank won't protect me if I let paypal autowithdraw something like that, because I "authorized the payment."

Another 3 months pass and he finally sends out a mass email to a bunch of people saying he was in an accident and would we please let him know what he still owes us. (I know that he'd been checking his mail in the interim, though; he is an aol user, and I sent him mail from aol, so I know when it got read, or when he deleted it unread.)

We just passed the one year mark, and I still don't have a 59 Aaron, of any kind.

That's the worst that's happened to me, and I feel pretty darned lucky, having read this thread...

Morrie

gregm13 · July 15, 2004 1:59PM

Jason - funtimes2003 is selling again on E-Bay. I love how E-Bay lets these scumbags get away with theft and let them continue to trade online.

Regards,

Greg M.

BackwardsMan · July 15, 2004 2:15PM

I got taken for $99 but it was my own stupidity. A while back I was bidding on a Wayne Gretzky 1979-80 OPC(it was stated in the auction that it was recoloured). I ended up not winning the auction but somebody popped up after the auction ended (off of Ebay) and said the had the same card for sale. I asked the person for a scan and she sent me a scan along with scans of a Michael Jordan RC, Mario Lemieux RC, and a Patrick Roy RC. I offered to buy the Gretzky and the Lemieux for $99. I sent it out and kept the onion skin(the light tracing paper type top). I figured this person was an honest person and I threw the onion skin out. Soon after, I went on vacation and the cards never showed up. I emailed her several times and never got a response. I wish I had kept that onion skin. The person though was an Ebay member and contacted me through Ebay. The person's ID is 22andblonde.

jrdolan · July 15, 2004 4:00PM

<< The seller has provided the following information in response to your
complaint, indicating that the item was shipped.

Tracking Company: Other
Tracking Number: 000000000 >>

This shows you how much interest PayPal takes in complaints that are filed. A human isn't even involved, it's all handled by computer. And apparently scammers have learned that you can enter 00000000 or any series of digits as a tracking number, proving to PayPal that "the item has shipped."

mudflap02 · July 15, 2004 4:30PM

Overtimecards claims to be from Midlothian, but I remember sending a MO to another town, probably somewhere closeby.

Buccaneer · July 16, 2004 9:36AM

<< Overtimecards claims to be from Midlothian, but I remember sending a MO to another town, probably somewhere closeby. >>

Here's what I got from digging out a past email:

Harry Trueman Jr
9440 Trails End Rd
Midlothian Va 23112

and here was his drivel he sent me:

Steve I do check these packs for signs of being opened but obviously it is not a sure science. I am sorry this happened to you and feel for your situation. It is deplorable that people would do such a thing but they do and get away with it all the time casuing me customers and business and you and other people hard earned money. I can offer a 10% discount on your next purchase to make up for this unfortunate situation. I value every customer I have including you.

Stay away from him.

koby · July 16, 2004 9:39AM

I would not purchase from him again (ten percent discount notwithstanding)

Are you tired of fraud? How much have you lost?

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